It dependes on the routes and the weights of the bots.
Zwift say:
Diesel
Casual-paced group ride with a few gentle hills.
1 - 2.4 w/kg @ 82kg = 82-197w
Cadence
Moderately-paced group ride with occasional hills.
2.5 - 3.1 w/kg @ 65kg = 163-202w
Brevet
Expert-paced group ride with frequent climbs.
3.2 - 3.9 w/kg @ 82kg = 263-320w
Anquetil
Elite-paced ride on a challenging route. Many tough climbs!
4+ w/kg @ 65kg = 260w+
For me is C ok, but the gap between C and B (C max 202, B min 263) is really big! With my 90 kg is it 2.24 / 2.81 W/kg.
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I agree with you 
The jump from CC to BB is a hard one.
I ride with the CC and BB and know that itĀ“s a great jump 
BB going thru that undulating route doesnĀ“t help. You loose the draft on a descent and itĀ“s a hard effort to close the gap (sometimes i guess some people will simply loose the group).
So itĀ“s not only a W/kg problem. ItĀ“s the raw power and the routes too.
Add my vote for more pace partner levels though the bike choice idea is a workable solution.
Iād also like to extend the idea to race levels- we need more categories for the same reason we need more pace partner levels.
Not just more pace partners but also a variety of them on different routes. Having the faster A and B pace partners also on flat routes like Tempus and Tick Tock would be good.
And possibly a higher one at 4.5w/kg.
For B, I think his weight or power needs to drop slightly. Bowie is very slow up hill but quite fast downhill or on the flat courses. Maybe thatās how people find the jump to B so hard.
Bowie on Sand & Sequoias route for me is harder than riding with A bot on one of the mountain routes, because the big group flies downhill at very high speed.
You have to do a sub-4 minute Titans Grove KOM to get far enough ahead that they donāt catch you before getting to the desert again. Doing that time up Titans Grove should automatically take you over to the Amelia group.
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Thatās to be expected when the wattage is maintained throughout.
Making them more dynamic so they slow/reduce power when the grade goes negative would be even better, and the opposite too, increase power as the grade goes up.
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i find bowie to be cruel. he taunts me with messages like ātake a break on the downhills!ā
but the downhills are usually where i have to push the hardest to stay with him!
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Zwift needs some even slower paced bots. I know a senior citizen who would like to participate, but at 85 (+?) years old maintaining 1.5 w/kg isnāt realistic. 1.0 w/kg might be.
Possibly even slower since maybe thereās a 90 year old who would like to ride with Cranky Carl at 0.8 w/kgā¦
Not to rehash, but I proposed a basic bias setting capability on your speed for whatever watts youāre able to output. Would obviate the need for more pace partners. Tunable by single point percentages.
Having the pace partner reduce power on the downhill section would solve that issue and add realism.
The difficulty with adding too many pace ranges is the level of participation. Not quite the same thing, but my last two rides with Makuri Coco, thereās only been me, or me and one other.
AIUI weāre looking at adaptive pace partners too.
Interesting point you make about Pace Partner participation numbers in Makuri. I recently finished an event in Makuri and carried on cycling to be surprised when I saw two different speed pace partners with very low numbers following them. I didnāt immediately realise that there are now four in Watopia AND four in Makuri.
Iām wondering whether many people bother signing up for a specific world Pace Partner or just sign up to the one they are first directed to.
Anyway on the thread of how many pace partners do we need - based on fact I now know we have two of each doing exactly the same outputs in two different worlds then my suggestion is we still need 8 (or more?) but they should all be doing different w/kg. Do people care which world they are in (accept Jungle) I suggest not, do they care that they are in a group going the right pace, I suggest yes.
Do Pace Partners have to be colour coded and closely aligned with race categories?
Is there any consideration given to those riders who struggle to ride at 1.5w/kg? They get dropped from D category races and I have seen a few drop out of the back of some of the slowest group rides (1-1.2). Are these riders doomed to ride alone forever.
Iām sure if there was a slower Pace Partner and smaller increments between Pace Partners this would help more riders.
Those riders who like the existing Pace Partner speeds could still have those exact Pace Partners and would be no worse off than they were 3 or 4 months ago when there were only four Pace Partners.
I accept that splitting everyone over 8 speeds as opposed to just four reduces numbers in each group. However the original groups will still be going at same or very similar speed and numbers may grow as more people find there are Pace Partners they can use.
In addition, as your comment suggests, by having 8 Pace Partners doing just 4 speeds you have already split your numbers for existing users and probably done nothing to encourage others to join the Pace Partner option.
Ride On - in a group itās a lot more fun.
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Re. Makuri, I think itās the difference in speed (I did 33kph, versus 39-30 in Watopia).
We know that there is a lot of demand for a 2w/kg PP (and probably 2.8) as well as others and we will get these in place, but I donāt know timescales yet.
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Re:Makuri
Your reply begs the question is that by set up design or the fact that a bigger group goes faster and a smaller group goes slower.
If you do an hour in both Watopia and Makuri sitting right next to your Pace Partner donāt you expect to see your w/kg average for the hour be the same in both worlds (no matter the number in the group) and also close to (or just slightly different depending on your weight) that advertised by the Pace Partner.
Surely if a Pace Partner is riding alone they are going slower than if they are riding in a group but they are still doing the advertised w/kg throughout the ride.
James
Sorry I may have missed a key point - are people doing Watopia Pace Partner just because it is going faster so they can do more miles in an hour and gain more drops, Ride Ons, XP etc?
If so a good reason not to have Pace Partners doing same W/kg across two worlds and have more Pace Partners doing different w/kg if nobody is going to join the slower of two equal w/kg Pace Partners.
I think they are generally quicker routes in Watopia - obviously size or lack of pack also has a pretty significant bearing!
On topic of w/kg, I am generally 2.4 in Watopia and 2.5 in Makuri due to the lack of draft.
Of course at times (4 days of each week?) some of the reason is that Makuri is not a current guest world, so unless you hack your way over to Makuri (such as by entering/quitting a Makuri event), you canāt ride with those PPs anyway, so a lot easier if your riding is more spontaneous to do the Watopia PPs
I think this is the most important reason why coco and dan is so popular, specially on the tempus fugit and tick tock routes. Add in the social aspect and thatās it I think. This is also why the makuri bots arent that popular now, slow routes, few people, little banter.
If people actually wanted help holding a pace they would use erg mode in a work out 
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There are several reasons that pace partner participation on Makuri is lower. First, a lot of people may not even know that pace bots are active on Makuri. Makuri isnāt always on the calendar. And at least for DD and CC the routes they ride in Watopia are fast and flat. Aside from all of that, folks are generally interested in racking up XP and Drops, and those accumulate faster in bigger groups, and they know the bigger pace partner groups are in Watopia.
Perhaps setting the pace bots up so that there is only one at each pace (as Ian suggested) and they rotate courses throughout the currently available worlds. So if France is on the dayās rotation, CC is there riding RGV and not in Watopia on Tempus Fugit.
When I see BB and AA they rarely have more than four riders with them. In the lower ranges thatās not the case at all. CC and DD have hundreds of riders in the blob. Itās massive. A pace bot at 2.0 w/kg would take say 1/3 of the riders from DD and 1/3 of the riders from CC resulting in well over 100 with each bot. A pace bot at 1.0 w/kg would take riders from NO existing bots, but rather increase pace partner ride participation by opening up the possibility for Zwifters who cannot maintain a 1.5 w/kg or higher pace. Adding some more pace bots below 2.5 w/kg would not reduce the number of riders with BB or AA.
Iāve seen several requests for a pace bot between DD and CC at about 2.0 w/kg. I see another such request every time I ride with Diesel or Cadence. What Iām pointing out is that there are riders out there (such as our neglected senior citizens) who canāt ride with ANY of the pace partners.
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