Jon's mix every day - overtraining?

Hi,

Straightforward question: Will doing a Jon’s mix every day cause overtraining?

I’m trying to improve my cycling performance but I’m not sure how to and I think it’s cool that zwift has so many different training plans that factor in where you’re at right now. Personally, when it comes to anything in life, I just like routine and sameness. When I look up training plans online, all I get is extremely confusing information on plans that only last a few weeks or I find very vague advice like “just go easy, go hard maybe 5% of the time, make sure you don’t go too hard” which I find basically useless.

Thanks for any replies.

Hi @Tommy_Smith_Team_Veg

That is a hard question to answer without more information.

Are you talking about this workout.

This workout is 71 stress points (TSS) if you do it 7 days you will build up 497TSS per week. So if you have a big base that should be ok.

How much TSS do you normally do per week?

Hi,

Yes, that is the workout I’m talking about.

I’ve only just gotten into doing actual workouts on zwift and I’m quite out of shape, my ftp is only about 230, but doesn’t zwift take that into account? I don’t do 900w for 10 sec on the hard interval but 600w for instance.

Yes Zwift does take FTP into account. But every body will do 71 stress points for this workout no matter what their FTP is.

How about these workouts:

On the off days you can do some free riding.

I’m sorry but I just don’t understand what the point is of doing something only for 6 weeks. Could you maybe explain that to me?

After the 6 weeks you can do a FTP test and then start the program over again. As you get stronger your FTP will increase and the workouts will still be hard.

It gives you a bit more variability than doing the same workout every day.

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How high do you think someone could possibly get their ftp by doing this program over and over again?

I don’t know. How high can you get your FTP by doing Jon’s mix every day?

This book is a good reference, you should check it out.

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How high your FTP will go is a genetic limitation…

If you want to race on Zwift, FTP is not as important as your Critical Power for 1 and 5 minutes (See articles on ZwiftInsider.com).

If your current FTP is 230, do the 6-week course and see if it improves. If dramatic (>15%)…do it again. If not, work on weaknesses. It all depends on your goals…which you have not stated.

The problem with doing the same thing every day is your body adapts to only that required output. You get better at that one thing…over the long-term overall will suffer because you are not doing other types of stress.

Personally I have no desire to race so I freeride. No training plans. And I would go insane doing the same thing every day.

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My goals are to just be overall fit and be able to do fast times on segments and improve my ftp.

I’d say that doing “Jon’s Mix” every day would result in overtraining. There are several high intensity efforts in there. Efforts like that day after day won’t give your muscles time to fully recover and you won’t get the most out of a workout if your legs are fatigued.

My understanding is that “Jon’s Mix” was designed as a test for the Workout Function in Zwift. It’s got a bit of everything. Doing “everything” every day won’t be the optimal path to improving your cycling.

My suggestion - try the 4 Wk FTP Booster plan. Adjust your FTP within Zwift as your fitness improves. If you want “sameness” repeat the entire plan over and over.

Thanks. I just did the first day of the 6wk plan but it felt like less than nothing. I think I need to do an FTP test, which I’ve never done before because I think it’s set too low - it was just set that way because of the last time I tried to get a PR in Watopia, but that was a longer effort.

Another question though: When doing one of these training plans, is it ok to do some freeriding after the day’s session, when you’re just really in the mood for that? Other than cycling there isn’t much to do right now…

I can’t see why not. just watch you weekly TSS.

That book that mike suggested is really good. I read it a few times and still refer to it often.

How do I know if I’m doing too much?

Resting heart rate goes up
General sluggishness
Several rides in a row that you ride hard but your metrics are way off (power, HR is up, etc)

Might be more indicators…

@Tommy_Smith_Team_Veg If you want to be overall fit, as others have mentionned, try a vary your workouts with a plan like the one @Bhaltair_Gruamach_DI proposed. As you mentionned some days will “feel like nothing” but these trainings still put a load on the muscles of your legs, your cardiovascular and neurological systems. Intensity shouldn’t be the only criteria of a training. Plans take into account volume, duration, intensity, frequency and density.

Also, workout plans take in account REST DAYS. Even pro cyclists have days off. Rest is as important as training. As @chris_benten1 mentionned, these are some of the signs & symptoms you may find with overtraining. On the long run, if you do not watch how much training load you do, you may start to stagnate in your training or even decrease and/or risk an injury.

My suggestion for the off-season:
Do a FTP test
Do the Build Me Up plan (10-12 weeks)
Choose any other plans afterwards like the Active offseason (8-12 weeks)
Fisnish with the CRIT crusher (4-8 weeks)
Zoom pass everyone next season

Cheers!

Get something like ithlete on your phone and combine it with a finger sensor or heartrate monitor to measure your heart rate variability before you get up each morning. That can give you a really good indicator as to whether you have started to overtrain. It will warn you before it’s too late.

Poor sleep, losing desire to workout (lack of motivation), unable to concentrate, muscle soreness persistent even after rest, and loss of appetite are a few more indicators.

And first thing first is to do a proper ftp test, ramp or 20 minute. All other metrics are based on that… each interval, training zones, tss, etc. 71 tss for a 1 hr workout is not too hard. In fact hard days I feel should be more than 85 for 1 hour and easy days below that say less than 65. Just my preference.

TSS per week is highly dependant upon where you are at in your training and training history. Someone who has ridden for 10 years straight in a structured program will handle large tss loads better than a new off the couch cyclist. This builds year over year, don’t thin in terms of weeks or even months… think in terms of years of fitness building. For some 250-300 is enough to proved sufficient stress for fitness gains. For well trained athletes perhaps this needs to be 500. For pro athletes this can be more than 800 with some weeks up in the 1000-1200 range.

Normal weeks I would say to have 2-3 hard days. Hard days are threshold, VO2 max, anerobic, sprint intervals (Zones 4+). Then have 2-3 easy days in Zone 2, endurance zone, all aerobic work. Be consistent, hard days are after an easy day or rest day. Ride 5 or 6 tines a week so 1 day off minimum. Remember that working out makes you tired and adds fatigue, recovering from that fatigue is what actually makes you fit.

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