When the gradient changes the resistance increase but power reported stays the same? so for the same cadence the resistance is higher and power is the same?
So for that to happen zwift would have to be reporting incorrect power or somehow zwift is making the trainer report incorrect power?
if you think zwift is making the trainer report incorrect data that would require some other power meter to check but not even sure how that would happen so that is unlikely.
If you think zwift is reporting the wrong power then record the power your trainer is sending on something other than zwift and see if it matches - no need to any other power meter in that case.
looking at the image above the cadence drops on the downhill so if erg was doing its job the resistance would increase to maintain the same power. Is it possible the visual of going downhill makes you subconsciously back of the power slightly as you would in sim mode going downhill so the resistance has to increase to compensate? I know i have done this. Only real way to test this is to do the workout with the screen off or not looking at it.
you seem pretty irate about it so not trying to suggest anything or say youâre making it up.
dual recording isnât a new concept.. itâs quite common for there to be a minor (in the order of seconds) amount of drift between two sources, but weâre talking about a second or two over multiple hours. i cannot be bothered to go through my own for an example but there are many where iâve had to offset the data of one source by a few seconds to get them to line up properly, a feature zwiftpower thankfully has natively integrated into it. the reason why escapes me, but itâs probably something to do with latency/internet
with that said, the âPâ in RPE canât be ignored⌠âperceptionâ. studies, none of which i have read but some of which i have probably skim read the titles of, indicate that most people have a preferred gradient - it varies by person - that they are most comfortable putting out a given power on. i like 3-5%
of course, it could also be true that your equipment is busted or zwift is. i donât use erg mode, because iâm not a TR podcast-addicted pencil neck. no offense to all of my fellow triathletes and pencilnecks out there, of which i am neither
Same thing again today with a 6x5min at low cadence on Fan Flats in Richmond:
I stayed exactly at 68rpm each 5 minute block at 255w. Heart rate quite modest and I could have maintained that pace for 20 minutes if necessary - so fatigue isnât a problem.
I set up this workout so that the download parts of Richmond fan flats (around 2%) were at the start of my intervals so nobody can claim Iâm getting tired.
As soon as the downhill ended the resistance felt about 15 watts easier and then on the uphill sections it felt easier again despite the indicated watts didnât same.
I did 6 of these blocks and every one of them the same thing, I maintained power and cadence level for the whole block but always more perceived effort on downhill, less effort on the flat and uphill sections.
The perceived effort should not change at all.
He is talking about the watts being the same, but the perceived effort being different when the gradient changes up or down.
I know what you mean - I am 187 cm and 91-92 kg and perceived effort going uphill is not âfast is funâ. But I am 100 % sure it is my head, not the legs, trainer (Tacx Neo I) or Zwift. I tested it (long time ago) in ERG mode with close eyes, it was a completely another experience.
It is going better now - since I started to ride Climb Portal regularly.
I am not talking about speed, âfast is funâ is Zwiftâs advertising (here in Europe).
Read please all what I wrote, it is about my experience with ERG mode and perceived effort- you write feels easier - and thatâs exactly what I mean. Feeling is subjective (there are power meters, no feeling meters), physics (Watts) is objective.
This is why I previously gave up trying to report this years ago and why I was irate before and still am when I read some of those replies which are to the effect âdoesnât happenâ.
I know when the effort is more or less and it is wrong when a steady block at 255w in ERG has a different RPE when the road goes down versus goes up or is flat. And itâs not me fatigued either - I could have gone at that pace for much longer.
That should not happen and it never happens in PerfPro Studio. So why does it occur in Zwift? Enough people have documented it - it needs to be investigated by Zwift.
even with people who are experts in their respective fields, i still double check every time they throw a number or a fact out there. the reason people arenât quick to take you at your word here is that the topic seems to be based on perception, and everything youâve posted as evidence doesnât really address the idea that anything youâre experiencing is anything other than perception. itâs not personal
Do people reporting this think the power being displayed by zwift is wrong when the gradient changes or the power being broadcast by the trainer is somehow wrong when gradient changes?
If cadence remains steady and power is consistent then the resistance canât change and so effort should be the same. Perceived effort may be higher than expected if you expect it to be easier downhill (either consciously or subconsciously)
For resistance to increase either cadence has to drop or power needs to increase or both. If resistance is not increasing then effort canât be increasing for the same cadence.
Iâm not saying what you experience isnât happening but canât quite work out what you think is happening.
Never. Leave them set to 2/8. Trainer difficulty never changed, and why would anyone do that?
Looks like Iâll go back to using another software for intervals where this doesnât happen.
I think there is something wrong in Zwift with itâs ERG mode because my cadence I can keep absolutely right on the mark (and I did this morning for all 6 intervals) and my power was absolutely level the whole time. And I could have maintained that power and cadence non-stop for 20 minutes or more. My power is the same, my cadence is the same so there should be no reason why the effort feels harder on downhill then easier when it is flat or uphill.
This isnât my problem - itâs over to Zwift staff to investigate.
I mean, you could try and test it with different trainer difficulty settings to see if it has an influence on your varying perceived effort on up and downhills during ERG mode.
To investigate a possible cause.
Still donât think that would do anything. If anything that should make downhill easier not harder
Actually. Setting trainer difficulty to zero and riding up and down hills could help rule out the visuals impacting expected resistance changes doing anything.
With trainer difficulty at zero hills should have no effect on your perceived effort
Youâd still go a lot slower uphill no matter what your TD is since the calculation of your speed isnât affected by TD. So altering this wouldnât remove the possibility of being influenced by your avatar visibly slowing down.
Iâm not saying that this is what the problem is, just that our minds easily play tricks on this and it needs eliminating as a possibility, especially considering the lack of mass reporting of this issue. Riding blindfold would be another test, or turning the display off or similar.
Yeah, thatâs what I was suggesting this for to try and rule that out.
I know when Iâm in erg mode I sometimes ease off the pedals a bit as a hill ends or a downhill starts (wrongly) expecting the resistance to change and this makes erg mode kick in a bit harder as it should due to lower cadence.
But people seem pretty adamant here that isnât the case.
