But a 70 year old person potentially doesn’t have the muscle mass to cope with the speed of the start of B races but has a steady state to push them into the above category.
You make allowance for one lesser form of physiology but not another…
Regardless of your thoughts/opinion, my stance is still the same.
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Is the weight protection threshold higher for lightweight men and boys?
What is/are the weight threshold(s) curently in place?
I think the better solution is to have a cat enforcement based on age, then organizers will have a easier time to make age based races. Currently age based racing is a bit of a hit and miss because people enter the wrong category and just blow up the field.
And don’t think age based racing is going to be easier it is not it is probably some of the hardest races out there.
If it’s just for women in mixed races why is it applied to juniors and men?
@Gerrie_Delport_ODZ its not the age related cats here, it’s one form of physical limitation is advantaged over another… if you weigh very little, you get a helping hand… if you are older and can’t produce the same explosive power you don’t.
I’m playing devil’s advocate to show the failings in the weight limits… why only help light weight riders?
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Regarding age, doesn’t the question boil down to whether the universe of eg. 70+ riders who ride at a certain 20min power, have markedly different power curves (ssp at the 15s, 30s, 1min etc durations) than eg. the universe of younger riders who exhibit the same 20min power?
My understanding there was no deep thought committed to these numbers and they have stuck…
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I don’t know and apparently since I am not light I may not have an opinion. 
It is the same with the new dynamic pace partners, light riders complained that they go off the front on climbs and now the PP goes faster on the climbs, but the bigger riders was always struggling to keep on the climbs and now they get dropped even faster.
I think the power profile is fair at any age, especially now that Zwift use more than just 20min.
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They could always look at the power curve from races and then apply some logic from that to the boundaries - If you took the power curve needed to stay with the pack at the outset and then introduced it to the new boundaries would that make racing fairer?
That might need some logical thought though.
Regarding the power curve, I think I’ve seen a number of instances where the explanation for a rider to be bumped to a higher category has been that their power curve is very strong in the shorter durations, even if their 20min could fall in the lower category. Does the new CE system work the other way around? Does someone with 20 min power that shows one cat, but 15s-5min power that reflects those in 1-2 cats lower, ever get bumped downward?
Because a power profile is a power profile. Age is completely irrelevant. If their power is limited because of age, that will show up in the curve.
If you are suggesting there is limited top end for older people (not sure if you are) then maybe the model (or a ranking system) somehow needs to account for sprint power too - but we know how much of a can of worms that is.
Weight is different, because that is one of the variables that impacts the curve.
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Vast majority* of older athletes will have a flatter power curve than younger racers.
(Im talking in general terms, there will always be exceptions to that.)
The answer to this is elsewhere.
The power curve is built from 2m-50m. Very short duration power cannot be built in to the model in an obviously effective way, because it is a completely different energy system. You can have someone with a 2.5w/kg FTP who can put out a 1500w sprint, and someone with a 4.5w/kg FTP who can only manage 900w.
The only way to account for very short duration power is to look at results rather than power profile. In terms of profiling aerobic capability, the CP model is extremely effective. If you use shorter duration power in the model it loses that reliability.
The vast majority of triathletes and time triallists will also have a flatter power curve. Should they be treated differently?
Seeing as the controlling factor is the power curve itself, it’s a solution looking for a problem not the other way around.
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So for this example, and cat placement, these 2 riders are treated identically? Or would the first rider be bumped to C and the second rider might be a D ?
I will jump in into the light riders conversation…the problem is when 35kg junior with +5w/kg can race in Cat C and blow the race apart and win solo from start to finish. Even in a Mountain Cat B Race he can win easy.
I would like to see this limits for lighter riders under 50kg
Cat D - up to 2,5w/kg (light riders up to 3,2w/kg)
Cat C - 2,5w/kg to 3,2w/kg (light riders up to 4w/kg)
Cat B - 3,2w/kg to 4w/kg (light riders up to 4,6w/kg)
Cat A - more than 4wkg (light riders more than 4,6w/kg)
As a triathlete id argue the vast majority of triathletes can hold their own against most every day riders - It may not be the perfect curve based on their long term power, but against the median their short power will hold them good enough.
To circle this back to the original point, an athlete has stated on cat promotion they can no longer hold the pack pace at the start of an event - We would normally advise to improve x/y/z to improve their curve. This is not always possible for older riders for a variety of physical reasons.
So how do you overcome that challenge?
The further point being made, we give light weight riders a helping hand, but the above athlete gets a shrug of the shoulders and tough.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Triathlete’s and time trialists (good ones, that have trained specifically for their discipline) will have flatter power curves. Basic VLA Max stuff. That’s why specificity is a thing.
Practice. This is skill based not physiology based. I would argue that anyone who is in the correct category (and the race is also full of people in the correct category) can hold the pack at the start of a race. Most people who can’t think you have to sprint at the start, blow up spectacularly, and then argue that the game is broken. You can do a lot less power than you think and hold the draft.
Weight is a key part of the algorithm. Categories are based on w/kg, it makes perfect sense to consider the impact weight has. The game does nothing with age, it impacts the physics in no way at all.
Power below 2m isn’t considered at all, so riders are categorised based on their CP/MAP and the category thresholds as explained in the other post. Short duration power is not considered at all, for the reasons explained above.