Category enforcement problem

sorry… I edited the ID… refresh your screen

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@Dave_Lambley does not appear to be on ZwiftPower as far as I can tell. I recommend signing up so you show up in the race results.

Also if you go to my.zwift.com and click on My Profile and share a screenshot of your power numbers it may be possible to explain your situation. (Example below)

My numbers are an example of a relatively high C category rider. I’ve been expecting to get into B for a while but haven’t made it so far.

Yeah, I just signed up for zwiftpower now. Looking at my data I’ve got w/kg of 3.21 at 40 minutes. So technically I make B grade. But aside from 1 race of 16 which I won, I’ve never made a top ten in any other race. Just had a couple of good rides over the weekend. Only race once a week. It’s a real full on effort and try to finish in the top 20%. I was dropped inside 2 minutes on entering a b race today…and then quit. Might try again later in the week, but can’t see it being fun. Been really enjoying zwift and it feels like a complete punishment. I’d understand it if I was actually finishing highly in every race, but I don’t.

Note to self: switch zwift off next time I feel like pushing it.

Sometimes when you want results you just need to pick events that motivate you the most and suit your physiology. If your zMAP values are good you can get upgraded for that. If your zFTP values are good you can get upgraded for that. If zMAP is low (below your capability) then doing a strong 3-5 minute effort can actually reduce your zFTP and potentially put you back in C (depending on the details). If your zMAP is the reason you got upgraded, I would seek out events where max aerobic power is likely to help you get a better result. That’s more likely to help if your body weight is relatively low since MAP efforts that make a difference are usually on small climbs. Training to improve FTP can also help if that’s your situation. My MAP and FTP values are both pretty good for C which means I prefer longer events with a 5 minute climb at the end. Plus I find those events motivating. My few wins are pretty much all that kind of event.

3.21 wkg for 40 minutes isn’t technically B Cat.

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:100: Without seeing the power numbers we don’t know how he got to B category. Could be MAP.

  • zFTP

283w

  • Estimate of your current Functional Threshold Power (FTP), the power you can sustain for a long period of time, i.e. > 40 min.

  • zMAP

316w

  • Estimate of your Maximal Aerobic Power, i.e the power at which you achieve peak oxygen consumption in a short duration effort 4-6 min.

  • VO2max

47.2

  • Estimate of your maximal oxygen uptake relative to your current weight expressed in ml/kg/min. (Assumes a fixed cycling efficiency)

  • Data
  • Graph

*For accurate metrics estimation you need to have done maximal efforts of at least 12 minutes in duration.

  • Peak Power

5 sec790 w9.4 w/kg

  • 02/08/2023, 18:26:51

  • 30 sec671 w7.99 w/kg

  • 02/08/2023, 18:26:51

  • 1 min506 w6.02 w/kg

  • 02/08/2023, 18:26:51

  • 3 min367 w4.37 w/kg

  • 04/08/2023, 18:02:33

  • 5 min324 w3.86 w/kg

  • 04/08/2023, 18:02:33

  • 12 min307 w3.65 w/kg

  • 05/08/2023, 11:40:48

  • 20 min291 w3.46 w/kg

  • 05/08/2023, 11:40:48

  • 30 min281 w3.35 w/kg

  • 05/08/2023, 11:40:48

I like how my zFTP for 40 mins is higher than my actual peak for 30 mins.

try a 3min max test if you think you can hit a higher number than your current PR. if not, then you’ll be OK with B pace in flat races at least. they tend to avg about 220-240w for most shapes and sizes

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The reason for your zFTP to be above your 30mins is because your 40mins (269W or 3.21W/kg) drop is higher than your drop from 20 to 30min.

Anyway you can join any of our 3 events and you will be in PEN C. We care about riders like yourself to still have a good race even if you get upgraded.

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I agree with @S_A_Cestria_CC

You got upgraded due to zFTP not zMAP. Your MAP PRs are low compared to your FTP. Your zFTP would probably go down if you do a serious MAP effort (3-5 min). A race is not usually the best way to do that - I’d do a free ride where you warm up and then smash a 3-5 minute effort. There’s no guarantee that you would change category by doing that, but you’re close to the category border so it might happen.

My guess is your MAP potential is better than these PRs indicate. In general your category will be most accurate if your PRs at all these times are really the best you can do.

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You can also race open races where all cats are visible and try to beat all the C racers (even though you’re B).
I know you’re a new racer, doing just 16 so far , but I would encourage you not to quit a race once you have started.
Find a reason to ride hard whether it be not to be last or beat your old group.

I was wondering how you could see how many races I’d done, then I realised I wrote 16 - but that was the number of entrants in the small race I managed to win rather than the number entered.

33 cat c races and only made the top 10 once. I’d suggest to zwift that it looks like cat c is the category for me rather than bumping to cat b on the basis of a few good efforts over one weekend.

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Category Enforcement is based only on power-to-weight ratio when looking at your FTP and MAP. But your results within that category are determined by whether the route suits your physiology and if you race well. It’s really important to understand when you should apply power, when to sit in and draft to the maximum, and whether the route means your results are not going to be a podium because of your weight or power profile. Getting dropped is an easy way to get upgraded even though the results are poor. That’s how the current system works. zwiftracing.app has a ranking-based system that works better for categorizing riders, but there are not a lot of events using that system. Zwift are also working on a categorization system that incorporates results but it’s still in development and not used by the Category Enforcement system.

The MAP threshold for B is 4.1 wkg, and MAP is 4-6 minutes? He’s at 4.37 already for 3 minutes. Not sure purposefully going for a short duration high is a good idea. I think this is actually just a case that all-round, he’s right on the edge.

His zMAP is 316W, weight 84kg, 3.76W/kg for zMAP. Not that close to B. zFTP 283W, 3.369W/kg, right on the border of C/B. My zMAP W/kg is a bit better and I’m still C. I also don’t care if he’s a B or a C, I just want the result to be accurate. If he can do the power all across the curve then he’s simply a B. It’s unclear if that’s the case or not.

Yeah, I guess I read that out of context.
The take home message is " the system is what it is".
If there is an error in your data, that’s one thing but for most, it’s trying to have fun with it the way it it is.
It’s a very entertaining training tool.
Maybe a game.
Your effort and sweat are real, your speed and results are make believe.
You never moved an inch.

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So I did a 10min warm up followed by five mins of giving it some effort. Not having tried this before I aimed for 350w and managed to do the 5 mins. Not sure I’d got much left after that, took me 10 mins to recover to feeling I could ride a normal pace with coco. Now up to 351w for 5 mins with 4.2w/kg (up from 324w 3.86w/kg.

You were right. Zmap up to 346 (from 316) and zftp down to 270. Gain a couple of kilos and I’ll be back below that 3.2w/kg needed for cat C!

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your 3 min is what stood out to me as being artificially low based on your strong 1 min and base fitness but i’m glad you’re getting somewhere. 3 min is a bit of a weird length for max test interval so this is often the case for a lot of riders

the main intervals to test are 3, 5 and 12 mins. if you keep those up to date your CE category should represent you properly. this advice goes for everyone else too

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you should already be a C…cause it’s 3.36Wkg for zFTP limit.
But surprise your zMAP is now above Cat C limit of 4.1Wkg :joy:

And you can’t just gain weight and drop category. :man_facepalming:

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