I know exactly where you’re coming from, and I found myself in that spot before changes were made which seem to have put me back into the category I expected/hoped I would be in. It’s demoralising to know you’re going to be amongst the lowest in terms of metrics in that category, and it being ‘corrected’ (my view, obviously) has definitely changed how excited I am about testing it out. I realise it’s easy for me to say now, but I suppose unless there are further changes, we’re just going to have to see if the reallocation of everyone makes all categories (perhaps excluding A!) fairer and more competitive for everyone, whether you’re the weakest in the pen or not.
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Moved the Ranking discussion to Race Ranking
Don’t be so hard on your self, it is not that bad. I started in D then moved to C at the back of the pack, then moved all the way up to top C then bumped to B riding bottom B and worked my way up to middle B. every time I got a huge bump in performance. Next stop A.
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That assumes everyone can just keep improving though, as you have. It’s possible for many, but it’s simply impossible/impractical for many as well. You’re a good egg so I know this isn’t your intention, but the concept that everyone just needs to try harder and they’ll end up in cat A can be a little insulting tbh. This isn’t to say everyone should be able to win - there will always be people at the bottom of the pile; we don’t want to be handing out participation medals - but a well-structured system is one where everyone feels like there’s a chance for them to be competitive, even if it’s a slim chance. Without that, people will just stop racing, especially if/when enforcement becomes the norm.
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I understand exactly what you are saying.
My hope is that we get to a point where the category limits move around so that people don’t get stuck in one place.
This is a nice step forward.
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Yeah being able to define the pens would help to resolve outstanding issues for edge-case riders, and in combination with an ability to create races within clubs would be really powerful. Long term there will hopefully be multiple solutions, if this present definition of enforcement doesn’t cut it on its own.
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In fairness, it is probably time I got off my pity pot now, I’ve had my moan and grumble, and been allowed to vent it on here with by my reckoning some very civil responses. Have a great evening all
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I did have a quick at your ZP results just now and compared to mine. I’m a genuine bottom of B any which way I look at my stats (3.21 in ZP and ~251 in CP) and when comparing to all your numbers, I can see why you are a bit miffed. Apart from sensible responses from the guys above, I’d add that yours is a clear case of “show me the numbers”. So if you could see the CP and MAP in say ZP, you might still be bugged, but at least understand. If we end up in the same event, I look forward to having a good tussle with you!
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Ah James
I was going to graciously accept your acknowledgment of my point and say that in no way did I ever expect my observation would make you feel super stupid.
The objective of these forums is to give a different perspective on a point and allow others to consider whether they wish to incorporate this point into their own way of thinking - But certainly never to say I am right and you are super stupid. And of course hopefully to arrive, through collaboration, at an end point that is better than the starting point and benefits the majority. (obviously also to help others out with Zwift issues)
Anyway while you were considering my point and how you might follow up on your reply I was enjoying a nice bottle of Italian red wine and probably now shouldn’t be replying in a public forum whilst under the influence.
But alcohol makes you do stupid thing so I will:
James - I did post a long winded reply and woke up 4 hours later, worried, and deleted most of it.
So the short version is:
Until someone can tell me which formula is being used to calculate my w/kg CP and W/Kg Map (both of course using one original set of power data, mine) I can’t tell you whether either side of the Or is exactly the same as the other.
Or whose version is correct.
AND we might both be correct !
You might possibly have received an email detailing my full reply by now. If you found it interesting or enlightening excellent. If you found it to be rubbish please put it in the bin.
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You taking part in the 6pm event? If so say hi and hopefully we can ride together at the back (probably) before attempting to rip chunks out of each other. I appear as my name on here.
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several races are now created as Low-B, High-B etc, splitting the categories. These are not always listed in the event list but distributed between participating teams. DZR are making “up-side-down” races combining High-C with Low-B. Both types above would give you a better race experience.
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It shows my ignorance in the I didn’t even know about them. Will keep an eye out and hopefully a few are available at the times I am. Cheers
Person A: “I’m in the top end of my category and I like the new system and can’t wait to try it”.
Person B: “I’ve been moved to the low end of a higher category and I don’t like the new system”.
Deja-vu, anyone?
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Yep.
3 significant issues with zwift racing:
- Sandbaggers (solved)
- Cruisers (solved)
- Every race has the same people at the top and the same people at the bottom (still not solved)
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These (Like FRR and the DZR one) are some of the best race experiences on Zwift. If they could use this logic but set their own boundaries, it would be amazing.
Deleted this
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I can only guess but I suspect you are modeled to have a CP just over the limit. Not gonna lie, if all zwifters are binned in only 4 buckets then the bottom of each will struggle. But its also the best way to test yourself. Hopefully these events motivate more low-cat people to participate and there are definitely more riders in your situation (Cs now in B, as well as Bs now in A), so that there is good racing for everyone within the cat. I’d certainly like some more company in the dropped group. Also, it seems these events are double-draft which may help with the upgrade and especially for the start.
Deleted this
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For anyone interested here is the distribution of 20min power (watts) and 15sec power (watts) for riders in Mondays 18:00 GMT B group.
@Dappy-Muppet-TFC a bit like you I am feeling like being thrown into the shark tank, so I wanted to see how my power stacked up. I would have liked to chart 5min as well but this was not in the ZP list.
In general the spread looks good and I was surprised to find I was not right at the bottom end. Although you are a few bins lower than me you are still not far off.
How these numbers play out during the race is something else, although we are towards the tailend it is still reassuring to see we have been grouped with others of ‘similar’ ability.
@xflintx I am sure you will have a more detailed analysis on group distribution; however from this small sample size and my own view I would just like to say it looks like you did a pretty good job.
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Remember that your Zwift Power dataset is not the same dataset that Zwift are looking at to model your CP. It includes all Zwift activities, including free rides and workouts.