Category Enforcement - How is my category calculated? [February 2022]

Ok thanks. Guess I’ll start joining those 12min races now :laughing:

1 Like

I’ll stop whining now. Always wanted to be a A-rider and was training for that. Now it’s happend sooner than later. Doesn’t matter, will try to train harder and stop eating cake

5 Likes

:wave::wave::wave:
8 chars

I feel this is potentially somewhat misguided. It really comes down to the combination of estimation of effort for the task/user story/whatever you use, and the benefit to end users in the meantime.

Sure, if adding a small change to the display of ZwiftPower is 2+ weeks of work for someone, that’s arguably a significant delay. If it’s more likely to take someone less than a day or two, then the benefit to end users justifies that insignificant delay.

It sounds like a 30 second job to add another number to the display in Zwiftpower, but since this number is based on statistics from all Zwift rides during the last 90 days (not just the event data that’s already in Zwiftpower) it might be more work than expected…

  • Category Enforcement: implement UI informing why certain categories are visible - In Progress

  • Scoring & Categorization: allow race results to have a score - In Discovery

James from information provided in Competition & AI Tech Update: July/August 2022 Recap which would you say is taking priority - CE category visibility or Race Scoring?

I have the same question.

If the Race scoring is going to be based on the ZwiftPower/USA Cycling system what further additions or modifications might improve what ZwiftPower already has in place? I’m sure many on this forum will have a view, and some might even help :face_with_monocle:

:joy:

8chars

2 Likes

To the best of my knowledge, we’re adding CP/MAP data to be visible via the users profile page. Then starting work on scoring.

There’ll be an opportunity for feedback and where we feel it to be relevant/accurate we’ll take it on board.

1 Like

How long do you estimate it would take?

I’m not sure whether “show the CE and old ZP (FTP) derived cats side-by-side on Zwift Power” is referring to the static copy under “Statistics” on the Events page (i.e. “ZwiftPower Historic Category”) or the “Minimum Category” information under Profile; but the former would surely be pretty trivial as it’s just adding some more static copy.

The latter might be a little more involved, but it’s really just taking some existing data and exposing it isn’t it?

What is “scoring” that you haven’t started work on? Surely not the results-based categorisation that you’ve been working on for months?

…this. Having the new CE and old ZP minimum cats shown side-by-side on the rider’s ZP profile page would be useful (and illuminating :wink:).

I don’t think CP and MAP needs to be on ZP it has nothing to do with ZP. But I think it needs to be on the user profile either the Companion app or Zwift game.

But showing CP and MAP will invite the “sandbaggers” to change weight until they are in the desired category again. There goes fair racing again. :sob:

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. There has been work done on scoring/results based, but not all work is developer work.

It’s not going to be very straightforward for them though. How would you know how much the model will change if you go pretty hard on that 3min hill or the other 8min climb assuming you’ve increased your weight by 1.5 kg? you might need to have more details about their parameter estimation and remember where in your power curve your previous best efforts were.
It’s certainly possible, but I don’t think the majority of sandbaggers will do it as easily as surfing the max 20 min W/kg limit :slight_smile:

The key question here is which is it simpler or faster to display in. If that’s ZP, then fair enough.

But yes, it should be readily discoverable by players.

We have had the statement, people changing their weight to stay in Cat will be banned for 3 months, let’s not be unfair and wait to see this happen.

Come on now Gerrie, be supportive.

This would cause even more confusion and complaining than there already is. If CE is the near future, then it needs to outright replace ZP as a metric. That is, the ZP site should should be completely converted to reflect rider CE data, CE race categorization, etc…

1 Like

The Zwift,com and CA profile has nothing but name, country, gender, height, weight and birthdate. Seems odd to to start adding power data there. The in-game profile data is the same. If you put the info on the screen that’s visible when hitting the ‘MENU’ button while in-game, you’re stuck with the annoying situation that you have to start a ride first in order to see your stats.

Zwiftpower is about… wait for it… power in Zwift. Just add another column to the ZP profile page, stick it inbetween the NP and 20 minute columns. In the top profile area, put CP: XXX under the FTP: YYY number. You still need though VO2 as well though, right?

This I completely agree with. But I doubt it will happen at least not quickly. I don’t think ZP is easy to change since Zwift don’t have the people that created it.

As a quick option it will be best to just display it in the app.

It’s just phpBB isn’t it? I’ve modded and created extensions to phpBB, vBulletin and XenForo in the past (all PHP-based forums), and they were all pretty simple to work with.

I don’t think it would be in any way tricky for any competent developer to work with ZP, especially if they’re already C-style curly brace language devs.