Lastly, FTP is not 1hr power!
Ok, but my CP is apparently much higher than my ftp which normally should be lower.
I just donât understand this metric that is causing all this issues for me.
Not sure what you mean by that emoticon that I donât have time to get much stronger.
I am just a casual cyclist that likes to race from time to time. I donât really care about winning, I wouldnât win in C most likely either
No, but I was 68.
Tnx for the comparison, looks like you are a much stronger rider.
Will check out your league
For the last time that is not my point, I am not in the top half of B at all, and I donât care about that.
But I canât keep up with anyone in A.
Even in B i have to keep around ftp to keep with the blob on the flats. Not a single a chance in A.
What people fail to realize is that raw ftp is also important not just w/kg. In my team (BEAT) my ftp is by far the lowest of all B riders. It is really hard to keep up on the flats for me in B already.
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Realistically, FTP/Raw Watts doesnât matter (as long as you can stay with the group). The vast majority of races are about 15s and 1 minute power (sometimes 3-5) unless thereâs a beautiful hill in the way.
This is why I donât win races 
Yeah same issue for me, any bump in the road and I am gone.
Didnât know that, so Zwift only calculates speed based on w/kg even on the flat?
Thought it would use raw ftp for flat and w/kg more important as the incline getâs higher.
For me I can never do these short hill efforts as i am already on the limit in the blob.
Yes, but the heavier you are the more drag you will receive.
So yes, watts are king on the flat, but weight will play itâs part and itâs also easier for lower wattage riders to draft on the flat, especially as the group size will normally be larger.
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Makes sense, that feels the same for me irl.
The point was that your story isnât unique. There have been multiple posts in this forum from those who find themselves coming in last in their newly assigned categories, who at the same time didnât come from winning previously. It was said by James early on, that there should be others in the same boat as you⌠that is, other edge cases â since every category has a border (edge).
However, what may be the case, is I donât know whether edge cases ever raced in large numbers (under the ZP system and now the CE system). To a greater extent, these folks may well just not bother doing Zwift racing. Certainly you see this in D cat races â almost nobody under 2.0 wkg enters. Hence itâs quite important IMO that Zwift launches the custom-defined Cat capability. Or maybe Zwift themselves should just randomly redefine the boundaries every so often to keep things spicy. A, B, C, and D are really just letters, right?
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K yeah I see your point now.
Yeah for me personally it does mean I will not do races now as it is not going to be a pleasant experience. I can imagine others feel the same.
I understand that every category has an edge, only i feel I shouldnât even be near that edge with my capabilities.
My main issue is that this CP value seems so untransparant , I donât understand the calculation while on ZP I could easily understand what those boundaries and edges are.
My hope is it does get some finetuning in the future to prevent these cases.
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Agree that itâs important that we do so, but within those categories, regardless of the definition, 15s and 1 minute power will still win races. Itâs about race craft and not just the power range for the category.
I actually think that the only important category limit (in its current guise) is that riders are able to hold the group, then the end is determined by those 2 power metrics.
Thatâs obviously for pan flat races, with other variables for rolling races (again one minute power) and climbing races (probably the only one where 20 minute power matters)
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This ârace craftâ claim is just nonsense. 15-60s power is not ârace craftâ. Itâs sprinting ability. Some have more than others, and itâs not got much to do with training or effort. Some of the best sprinters are basically overweight desk jockeys who (quite legitimately) lounge in C cat due to having pretty mediocre fitness levels.
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No, but hanging with the group allowing you to be in a position to make your sprint worthwhile is race craft.
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But the level of skill required to do that is basically trivial (if you have the requisite fitness level). I agree that a few newbies might not be good at it for their first few races (it may also depend on how responsive their equipment is) but itâs hardly relevant to most racers.
Being able to draft well and position yourself sensibly in the group is the single most relevant part to Zwift racing.
You are correct in that drafting is not hard, but course knowledge, knowing when a rise is coming that could cause the group to split and ensuring that you are towards the front of the group is vital.
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IMHO there are two parts here: one is the cat enforcement, and the other is the cat definition.
I think most people are OK with the cat enforcement, as this promoted fairness, but the definition (I am guessing) is what prompted @David_Danser to headline this post as is.
Maybe we can agree one bit at the time⌠
I agree racing on your own is not fun, nor productive, so there has to be a way to design races and categories which make riders feel they have a chance - to be competitive, that is, not necessarily win.
I understand race organisers can define different parameters to âCEâ riders in certain pens. So maybe they need to be aware of how they define the pens for various courses, in which case the same rider could be in a different category (and pen) according to the course, instead of being defaulted into a category for everything. This should possibly alleviate some of the male/female differences in mixed races too, as women do not have the same raw watts as men in the 15s/1m and even 3/5m, which, I agree with James, is what makes a big difference in winning.
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Any progress updates re racing enforcement plans etc? @James_Zwift
We were getting a kind of timeline update occasionally.
In regards to the above discussion. This cat boundaries issue just has to be further improved. As many have pointed out repeatedly, allowing race organizers to adjust cat boundaries will allow more interesting racing.
Riders like David above will enjoy racing far more if they are not stuck at the bottom of some arbitrary fitness level. Humans are not born into categories. Itâs make believe.
By adjusting these boundaries in certain races, weâll give everyone the chance of being at the top of their category from time to time.
It was mentioned this was a long term goal. Are we talking weeks, months?
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What @DejanPresen said. Flint posts monthly to let you know what progress we have made.
Bear in mind that the team are working on a number of things - category boundaries included. It will take a bit of time - Category Enforcement as it exists for us is currently an on/off with no further customisation options available but we will work on this.
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