Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

New Race series and therefore you would think something based on all the value discovered from any POC work previously done … :thinking:

I think it’s just going to be a new race series :man_shrugging: but maybe I’ve become cynical.

Isn’t that the supposed start of the ZHQ race series, and thus the ideal moment to introduce something slightly different (though probably not yet complete)? If it were just another 2-hourly crit race event but using a different course then I wonder why it would even need mentioning at all as we would find it on the calendar eventually. I’m expecting to see some changes TBH, and if not it will feel like a missed opportunity to me.

No, it absolutely wouldn’t. Without ZwiftPower (and the other community-powered developments that preceded it), Zwift probably wouldn’t care a single jot about racing. It was never in the core proposition (social riding).

Three cheers for the grass roots rising up and saying “we’re doing this anyway, with you or without you” and showing Zwift the way. It still took 5 years for it to be taken semi-seriously though.

(Or should I say 5 years and a global pandemic forcing pro riders indoors.)

Yes the start of a new ZHQ race series, I’m just not sure there will be new functionality released with it. I’d love to be wrong.

It was very briefly mentioned in the DC Rainmaker article linked above, about a week ago.

Semi-related to all of that, and with no particular place for me to stash it, I’ll note that Zwift says that starting in November they’re going to be running a new race series that’ll add far more races to the daily calendar – somewhat like the ZHQ races, but with more availability when you log into the game.


Sadly, back to the original point, if they do nothing to police it, little point in just adding to the race calendar


Instead we now have one topic with people saying the same thing over and over and over again :stuck_out_tongue:

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Let’s hope they put in the Green cone of Shame in place.

Reminded me of this classic.


Wow, 1400 posts! Congratulations guys, couldn’t have done it without my fellow moany racers.

I think I might add this thread to my CV.


Matchmaking races based on AutoCat? :facepunch::crazy_face:

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No we all have (become cynical) , but we are calling out what has been promised and not any old new race series , its been given a fanfare as part of some new evolution and sign of change , on that basis we have something to judge and adjust our level of cynicism accordingly.


Exactly so.

I agree wkg categorization does not suit all needs. Definately not for us “lighter riders”.

In order to avoid the unfairness one of virtuslo club members developed speed based “wkg” categorization for our RGT events. Category limits are curves and not flat lines as in zwift. You can check the graph here:

We tested this categorization in event and it turned out great. There was a small test sample but this categorization has a potential! Here is an article describing the method used:

This curves are calculated with cyclist speed calculator on real roads. RGT physic matches these speeds pretty well. We would need to adjust the curve according to zwift physic which we know is not the same.


7 months? Nothing much has changed in several years.


I’ve definitely missed this. All I’ve seen is the tidbit from DC Rainmaker. Do you have a link?

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I certainly agree that your approach is superior to a flat W/kg but it suffers from the same generic problem that using 20 min performance is never going to work well for races that are typically decided by something closer to 1 min performance. Different people have very different curves of power vs time. The basic point still holds, that the only classification that can possibly work properly is one that reflects the actual performance of cyclists in races. Once you get that point, the whole idea of trying to predict performance via some biophysical model is obviously crazy, since you can use actual results instead. Best case scenario for the model is that it tells you what you already knew, and in reality it’s never going to get it right, which means that some riders get screwed over time after time (until/unless they learn to game the system).


Assuming the number of sandbaggers is (approximately) constant, “far more races” certainly means they will be spread across more races and thus there will be fewer sandbaggers in any specific race. Of course it also means that there will be fewer legit racers in each race as well. Good races (in terms of attendance, route, format, schedule) have been difficult to find for a while especially during the ZRL seasons and this doesn’t sound like it will get any easier.

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I’d say the key words there are “time trial”. Next please.

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