An additional advantage If you auto assign Cats so everyone starts in the right pen, you can lose the wkg disqualification for over performing…
If you start in the right Cat and overperform you keep your result and placing but you get closer to the upgrade point…
This thread is in danger of going off on a few tangents.
Am I right in summary?
There are a number of issues with a power categorization system that cannot be resolved without either complex additional functionality, or switching completely to a rankings / matchmaking system.
A power based system that accounts for every possible scenario is likely even more work than a rankings system - neither of these options are going to be developed and made available in the short or medium term
That leaves us with a more simplistic power based system for short/medium term whilst working on a longer term solution in the background
This system would include the following basic functionality:
Let’s do just that, and worry about how we can manage particular exceptions or improvements after.
By autocategorization, we fix it on the front end, not penalize on the backend - this is generally preferred.
Overall, this thread has answered the open questions our team had around how to define the performance of a rider and how to classify the categories.
Thank you all,
Mark
Thanks for the increased level of engagement! Looking forward to what your team has in store.
This is what we have been asking for for a long time. It is great that it get some attention.
I don’t really see why they’re not already at risk of this. Alienating racers who want legitimate competition. Zwift racers have social media followings too - many of them larger than the random average user, I’d hazard a guess.
Being a tiny percentage isn’t a problem in itself. What matters is whether we’re a representative sample. If we are, then we do represent the majority of Zwift racers, by definition.
That’s how opinion polls work, and they’re always 100% accurate. 
This has been suggested for years and seems like it should be easy to implement. Also seems like it’s your preference.
So the question is … “what’s the holdup?”
Just make sure this auto-categorization is not easily hacked on the front end. That would be bad.
Cant agree with your more wholehearedly @James_Hodges_KRT . It really is this simple . I have no idea why we are 500 messages in and counting as if there is some missing idea or solution to be discovered . The issue is really talked to death , all that is needed it some action… It really is this simple. its what every competitive sport does , categorise by results .We dont have to make up anything even for new riders , as I think others have said , like in real life you start off in mass start events until you have obtained your race cat. Anything else is going to be woolly , fraught with subjectivity and arguments. Then you have black and white numbers easily to auto pen riders .
With regards to point 2, I’ll direct your attention to RGTdb.com where 3 guys programmed a ranking system in their spare time in a couple of months. Shouldn’t be too hard for Zwift and their full time army of programmers.
It’s not a lack of ability or a lack of feasible approaches stopping this from happening it’s a lack of management will.
Mr. Lister, that is a ranking system set up on an external website. It is no different to the ranking system that already exists on ZwiftPower. As far as I am aware, RGT do not have a ranking system built in to the core platform that pre-determines what race pens you can or cannot enter?
We are trying to get the ball rolling now a dialogue is open with Zwift. When your comments are purely just digs at why the system doesn’t already exist it’s not exactly conducive to progress being made. I share some of the same frustrations but now a door is open let’s make the most of it.
Look up Powerlifting? they go by Kg ( things like UFC Boxing )
Point taken . Hardly comparitive though and I dont recall ever seeing anyone being disqualified for lifting more than there all, category max wieght per kilo in weightlifting. I trust you are not suggesting that we consider categorising in zwift just by the Kg element.
Perhaps to cover all the edge and non specific cases the fact is you are categorised by something you have , not something you are predicted to acheive (and limiting that) . If we wanted to , you could consider masters cycling as categorising by age , national championships as categorising by nation of birth (or residence or whatever) etc.
I think he says that weight lifting is on of the few sports that has weight classes.
W/kg is like a weight class if you weight the right amount you can keep winning without upgrade. But we will cross that bridge later after we get the auto categories working.
I know I’m late to the party, but I’ve expressed my views in earlier posts in this thread if you’re interested. It’s good to hear that you and the team have gotten the feedback you were after.
May I ask how you see things moving forward from here? Are you looking for a big overhaul changing multiple things all at once and making auto-cat the default race mode; or do you see a way forward by rolling out improvements step-by-step in a Futureworks format, gradually adjusting things along the way until it can ultimately be offered as a race mode toggle outside Futureworks? And is there, for example, an option to initially offer such auto-cat races only for riders registered on ZP until you solve the issue of categorizing riders that are not linked to ZP (or ideally, automatically linking each rider to a ZP account)?
Hey Marco, yes we’ve read ALL of the posts here and ensure it’s not just been the last 100 that’ve gotten attention. Thanks for your comments and feedback.
We’re working on next steps right now. There are a few mega initiatives going on the software team right now that are in front of Competition Fairness so I can’t confirm timing. As this is looking to be in the near term queue, Flint and I have been engaging along with a few other PM’s on calls with some of you on this forum to gather feedback and thoughts. There is active work on Power Curves and outlining the systems and rules for upcoming competition series, some by Zwift and some in partnership with WTRL. There is upcoming work on recommended and auto categorization, so this feedback will fuel those directions.
I hope this gives some clarity - I know we all want details and a launch date, but we do not have that yet.
Mark
All very encouraging Mark, which is much appreciated. If something much improved compared to the current setup can be in place by the time the autumn comes round again, I’ll be a happy Zwifter.
You’ve probably got this covered, but it’s worth noting. It’s important that you are canvassing a range of racers, as the views of A racers might be very different from those a D racers; and a system that works well for one end of the range might not be good for the other end.
I think this highlights one of the points of confusion that happens on Zwift. Many people seem to use the term “sandbagging” to describe both “racing out of category” and “putting out performance figures which don’t get you upgraded”.
And you’re right, the latter can be tackled later - you have to have enforcement before you can start really seeing whether people are exploiting the rules in clever or negative ways.