Thanks, so if Zwift someday does do a tech build that automatically places riders in their correct pens, it’s been stipulated that we don’t want Zwift to do this for “ride” events. I have noticed, and not sure the distinction, there are some “rides” (not Races) that are on Zwiftpower, and these events have “shows race results”.
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All calendar events will appear on ZwiftPower (unless a few maybe have requested not to be there) but where they are categorised as a ride rather than a race the final positions are random. This discussion is all for races only nobody would want to do social ride every time at their max ftp.
There are some distinctions to keep in mind here:
“Races” contribute to your race ranking; finishing well in a field of riders with higher rankings will improve your standing. Races always have a leaderboard and finishing list. As long as the racer fits into the requirements set down by the organizer at the finish, category, power, etc, they will get a result. Operating outside of those requirements will result in a DQ of some sort.
“Rides” do not contribute to your race ranking at all. Power numbers you generate in races and rides will show in your account and contribute to establishing your category. The segments that are listed in Zwiftpower have leaderboards and the times in races and rides will be listed in your Zwiftpower account.
The final distinction: Any time you have two bicyclists going in the same general direction down the road, you have a race. That’s how rides can and do degenerate to races much of the time unless the ride leader enforces the fence.
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Ok. Wasn’t sure how this works. Take an event like Tour de Zwift. I guess that’s a social ride and if you’re say a C or D rider and enter those pens, you shouldn’t be upset seeing A or B riders at the top of the results. Likewise results and performance in non-Race events therefore should have no bearing on how your category rating is determined, right?
Tour events like Tour de Zwift usually use the pens for course selection rather than rider ability. So there is a mixture of short/medium/long events to choose from.
So you will find the full range of abilities in the same pen if that’s the case. Always worth checking event description if signing up for something new.
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- phase of the moon
- Dow Jones Industrial Average
- outside temperature (Celsius)
- average number of Zwift rides per month
Speculative list, admittedly.
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At least that would make it difficult to game the system. 
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I think you missed the most critical metric: size of [edit]…
The supposed finishing order on the list of results for group rides is pretty much random so no, you should definitely not be upset about it whatever the case may be. I guess Zwiftpower should really just remove the placings altogether from the list in such cases to be clearer…
Hey @xflintx how’s the category enforcement development and testing going? Any interesting scraps you can chuck the hungry folk here?
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Name and shame?
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Nope, lets not go there that’s what gets discussions shut down.
Naming and shaming won’t stop them they don’t care. The system needs to change not the players
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This thread has been going so long with no result, does it really matter if admin closes it?
I know “they” don’t care but maybe if we had a list of offenders available we could check on the rider list before we bother entering?
Yes, it matters, because there’s still ongoing discussion.
Zwift are never going to allow naming and shaming, and it seems pointless anyway.
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We have said it before, the only way this moves quicker is if Zwift HQ feel the pain.
Prime example, the TFC guys cancelled the Monday night series and all of a sudden they have access to private events and it was all a mis-understanding. There was prominent HQ staff posting here, facebook groups etc trying to put out the flames as soon as that happened. (Tells you an awful lot about their priorities tbf if that is the only way they react.)
As an end user it very much appears they see the right to sandbag as a priority over fair racing.
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Agree with that. While they seem to set great store by being a serious E-sports platform at elite level and have all this validation etc, their behaviour is actively hostile towards mass racing for the plebs. There’s simply no plausible way to explain the lack of action in terms of it all being too difficult for them.
I find it puzzling as I’m sure those of us who would value a fair and credible racing system for all must outnumber the handful of cheats who would get bored and wander off if they couldn’t act like playground bullies.
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They are lucky a competitor hasn’t really mastered fair racing for the masses. I know I would immediately jump over and end my Zwift subscription. Racing is the only thing keeping me here and I’m not happy with the state of affairs.
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Let’s just say our eyes are on the calendar for when now. No firm dates, but it’s gettin’ real close.
Again, I want to stress that while this is simple relative to making something like a full-fledged matchmaking system, the reason for the amount of time it has taken is because it requires a lot of related things to be considered, built, and signed off on.
This doesn’t mean we’re trying to fully reinvent the competitive landscape in one fell swoop. Understand that this is going to be exactly what was asked for: a restriction on self-select categories for races. Everyone who signs up will have their profile analyzed based on X criteria, and then will be prevented from joining any category below where those criteria say the should be.
We are not creating matchmaking, we are simply implementing a floor for categories.
The final detail I want to share on this for now is that we are creating the template and foundation necessary to be able to restrict or allow any user attribute in future events, not just categories. That’s part of those “related things that need to be considered, built, and signed off on.” I understand there has been discussion in this thread about pen enforcement in lieu of cateegory enforcement, or other better ways to tackle the issue of sandbagging. This system should ultimately be able to answer that, it just won’t answer that right this second with its first incarnation.
In short, what I’m trying to help get built for racing is not the classic Zwift quick solution that will ultimately require more work to undo in the future and I hope that comes through here. We’re trying to do this with growth in racing and competition in mind.
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Amazing.
Cannot wait for some changes as I am bored and fed up with C cat cheats who clearly have no nuts. I would love to be a B cat of A cat standard.
Give us all a good Christmas present.
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