Age Group Podiums and KOM/QOMs

Thanks Paul. I didn’t see anything amongst those other suggestions that was as specifc. They are related but not the same suggestion.

Thanks for pointing out the link error. When I put the right link up the system messaged me that links are not allowed.

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I’m an older rider (64), and not really worried about such things, this time of year I’m out on the bike in the fresh air and all my zwift kit is packed away till the weather closes in(probably about November/December)

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You can break the link by adding spaces and it will allow it

Does a 60 year old D category rider want to race against a 60 year old B category rider? Because both of those people exist. What’s the point of that compared to racing against people with similar power?

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Whilst it’s unlikely to be something that we would offer, there are a few age based (Masters) events that are run by group organisers.

Thanks for the response James! Nice to meet you. Can you tell me why it would be unlikely for you to offer AG rankings? Is it possible technically? Age is reported and being ranked by age could be a voluntary “opt in”. Has there been research on whether this is important to your older members? Or to the demographic of potential members from a marketing & revenue growth POV?

I am attaching my broader platform. Happy to point you toward research on the physiology, psychology, public health and economic impact of increasing the activity level of the aging population.

Notwithstanding the two comments below, my experience is that older riders (even if they are able to ride) drop out (IRL and Virtual) in part, because they don’t have peers and there is little support. They are not important and feel marginalized. It’s less fun! Knowing that one is maintaining/outperforming the inexorable Age-Decline Performance Curve, is enormously motivating. Our bodies change but it doesn’t have to be so discouraging. In fact it is especially thrilling to hang on to fitness and drive. Having more AG recognition will also help build community among those riders.

I race with both older and younger men women. It’s big fun to outride my male peers and youngsters, but it’s a bummer to get no recognition for it. Especially for older women riders, where there are already too many obstacles and too few events, with no recognition of performance either in General/Men’s races (no women’s podium). But I am lucky to be relatively fast. It is even more discouraging for people that aren’t. However if they are able to see their own performance against the age curve, and ride “with” their peers, it is motivating and reassuring.

I have a bunch of ideas of gaming features that could make this very fun and motivating – even for the younger riders. An IRL anecdote that is relevant: For many years now, I and other competitive older women riders have experienced the same thing. We might come up on a group of riders or vice versa. Everyone picks up the pace a bit when the “girls” show up. When the other riders happen to learn who we are or how old we are, they nearly fall of their bikes. And the pace picks up another notch when they realize that woman keeping pace and looking very strong could be their mother or grandmother! A new perception of age begins to dawn on that person. For some, a new vision of what their later years could look like. Generally, our societal expectation is of decay and irrelevance with older age. It doesn’t have to be that way.

Older woman athletes/riders have been overcoming resource and opportunity bias for their lifetimes. They have hung in there and developed toughness. But women and older riders who are trying to increase their fitness, and see indoor cycling as an accessible, safe and excellent fitness option, will find little support on Zwift. Yet I posit that it is a significant market opportunity for Zwift.

That’s an individual perspective. From a societal perspective, there is a huge opportunity for an organization like Zwift to help reverse out the marginalization of older athletes and women. In societies where the older population is valued, people live longer, healthier lives, are less of a burden economically and on the health care system, and contribute more of their wisdom to the younger generations.

It might seem like a big leap to suggest Zwift could play a role here, but many small actions by large numbers of people, throughout history, has accomplished transformative positive change and progress.

OK I have to run out for a ride. Look forward to hearing back from you.

Best regards,

T

(Attachment Platform to advance Older Athlete and Women-Friendly Practices in Cycling - Trish Karter 2023-07.pdf is missing)

All true, but I don’t think it was necessarily said that general classification rankings would have to go away.
Linked to previously (or not linked really – add an “h” at the front) – on related topic, this example being a bit too much, but certainly something else could be done.

As a 64 year old, and someone keen to encourage later in life exercise, I support your suggestion to make age related performance easily viewable on Zwift for race performances and KOM/QOM segments (and hopefully Sprint segments).

I probably could include the link you may be wishing to show but I’m not sure on forum policy so I will post this readable pdf in hope it is what you want displayed. ( I’m happy Moderators can always remove this post if it is not appropriate)

If I may add my own thoughts on the areas you are suggesting.

Some of the suggestions you make are findable, but not easily, on ZwiftPower. If you are not registered on ZwiftPower you might wish to register and see what age related information is available. Connecting to ZwiftPower

It looks like Zwift is moving much of the ZwiftPower information over to Zwift Game. From the link in the post immediately above @James_Zwift posted this:

I hope the focus group might be considering an improved race results setup, in Zwift game, to include an ability to view results by sex and age categories. The ZwiftInsider policy of publishing best man and women results in Tiny Races is a small start. (However taking this idea to the limit may almost result in more ‘podiums’ than competitors in many Zwift races!)

I do like your idea of the ability to view KOMs/QOMs (and I hope Zwift would include Sprint segments) by age categories. Being able to select and view an ‘over 60s’ in game leaderboard for both might encourage me to put a little more effort into these segments. If implemented this might lead onto whether Zwift should then provide ‘over 60s etc’ segment leader jerseys.

In respect to AG categories into 5 years I think if you check out ZwiftPower, Masters racing does sort of do this. Race is in 10 year categories but results are in 5 year categories.

Note. Results are split to UCI age groups after the race in ZwiftPower. (https://zwiftpower.com)
Race pens: (system max 5 pens)
A = 30-39
B = 40-49
C = 50-59
D = 60-69
E = 70-**

Result age groups: (system max 10 pens)
DQ < 30
A = 30-34
B = 35-39
C = 40-44
D = 45-49
E = 50-54
F = 55-59
G = 60-64
H = 65-69
I = 70-74
J = 75-* “*

This might suggest your “Zwift AGs stop at 60+“ might need amending as there are certainly 70+ And 80+ Category riders ( and probably 90+ riders)

I’m with you, thinking age category names in Zwift are slightly confusing as do a few others on this forum:

I hope all or at least some of your suggestions can be incorporated into Zwift game in the future.

EDIT: final point for consideration - your initial post should probably be placed under ‘Feature Requests’ and not ‘Racing’. I think Votes are normally only recognised within the Feature Requests threads. If you did want this thread moved I believe the Moderators can do it for you. Your post has little to do with actual racing and more about how age and sex categories can be better promoted.

Thanks John and Ian! So many good thoughts.

RE FINDING?DIGGING FOR DATA ON ZWIFT POWER That surfaces the fundamental concept - which is to honor and celebrate riders in as they age, not marginalize them and only focus on the young riders. If we have to dig for the data it almost doesn’t matter. For instance, when I look at my race results I can scour for my AG peers and figure out if I “podiumed”. But that is cumbersome and doesn’t build anything within the peer group over time. Is just an isolated data point, not a highlighted moment of recognition and fun.

RE MY PLATFORM: Thanks so much for posting for me. This is not my skill set. Stumbling through here… :slight_smile:

RE GENERAL CLASSIFICATIONS: For sure they stay. This would be an added feature. But it needs to be something with visibility to make it more fun for the older riders. That doesn’t take anything away from riders like Paul who are happy to race others at their power level, regardless of age. These are two different ways of thinking. Both good. Only one is available.

RK/QOM’s & Jersey’s: Older riders are as different from younger ones as men are from women, in their raw capability. YOu could almost think of it as quadrants. All equally important if the goal is to deliver fun, motivation and reward to all equally. Right now it gets less fun, structurally, for the aging riders, with some exceptions

RE AGE GROUP SPANS: I don’t see where they break results into age pens. Will have to go hunting for that. Maybe you can steer me to it. I was referring to race results on Zwift Power. They are presented as Senior, Vet, Masters, 50+ 60+, etc. within the race report. Overall Points rankings for all races are the same and the oldest category is 60+.

WHERE TO POST: I am new to this forum and couldn’t find the FEATURES option for posting. I hope the moderator will do that as I don’t think I can move the thread myself. Thanks!!

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Hi Trish,

This is more down to the fact that ZwiftPower is end of life and we’re not looking to make any substantial changes to it.

In terms of creating this in game, this is not an insignificant change - it is technically possible but unlikely to be prioritised above other improvements that we’re looking to make given the size of our development team that work on racing features/improvements.

I’m not sure what you mean by creating “in game”. Yes, difficult to create age-based pens etc, but Step 1 should be pretty simple – isn’t it basically creating a pivot-tabled Excel spreadsheet with ability to click on filters, or something in Tableau so that people can just visualize and sort a race or event’s result data by whatever filters they want? The data is already sitting there.

Nothing is “pretty simple” - we don’t just add a pivot table into Zwiftpower and magically everything works.

Probably quicker to implement in zwiftracing.app if @TimHanson likes the idea

Thank you all.

James, can you please move this thread to FEATURES so we can have broader membership exposure?

REGRDING THIS BEING LOW PRIORITY AND NOT SIMPLE. I respectfully ask you to consider whether the other gaming features which have higher priority, are at the same level of impact for equity? The essence of these changes is to combat Ageism and Sexism. Zwift could be a positive player. I argue that it is also commercially the better path. Where does DEI fit into the strategic priorities and mission of Zwift? Has this suggestion been surfaced to your Executive Team?

Thanks!

Moved, Done.

Sure, I can add this to the backlog. I’d be interested in hearing more about how it should work in smaller events when there aren’t as many people per age group to fill a podium.

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Does it even make sense to split on age groups if the race was in different pens? I can see how a single pen will work.

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I wasn’t thinking of Zwiftpower since this has been publicized as going away. Companion App seems a likely place to start.
Every event should have data that’s somewhat easily sorted and filtered – Name, wattage, time, age, hr, etc.

This imo only works if you can classify pens by age - or trust that riders will enter the correct pen.

Or have everyone start in the same pen at the same time, but that would potentially be demoralising for the older categories.

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Still work that requires an engineer and as I said earlier this isn’t likely to be high priority.

Yes this was my thinking as well.