You can do that. In theory you are correct you ride under the limit of the C cat. That is the problem with the system.
Race organizers have the right to apply rules as they see fit. Just avoid those races.
But you will know if jou are watching your average power during the race to stay below the C category limit.
Thomas I promise its my last post in this thread.
First, technically you’re correct there’s no written rule describing sandbagger. But apart from written rules there’s a common sense. And no one wants to race against riders like you - gaming the system to your satisfaction - simultaneously ruining the experience for all other riders. You got caught, and that’s it.
Second, Zwift is a freaking game. There are no “angry mobs” and “witch hunts” here. Use the words you understand.
And third and most important. If you race in C you are a sandbagger, rules or no rules. You will be occasionally called out. But there’s very simple solution to get rid of this tag. Ride in B. Voila! Magic! One simple move and no controversies anymore!
You are legit B rider, ride where you belong.
Do some research on power model curves and look again at your numbers. Everything except your 95% of 20min power points at your FTP being closer to 330W.
Either you are an extremely rare outlier, e.g., a track sprinter with no stamina, or you are deliberately holding back so your average is a fraction within the automatic limits imposed by ZwiftPower, while tearing up the race with your anaerobic power.
BTW, also note I said “automatic” limits. There’s nothing to stop organisers DQing riders at their discretion. I once DQ a rider and retroactively removed them from all results because they were abusing me through direct messages. If a rider’s attitude stinks, I’ll DQ them. Call it unsporting conduct.
Thomas wrote:
I think this is a burning of witches: If I burn I’ll get my just punishment, if I don’t burn, I’m a witch and must be killed.
Looking from a glass half full perspective, if you’re a witch at least you’ll be able to enter the women only categories.
As a side note,
if on a “witch hunt” (not that I have ever been on one, or envisage me doing so in the future) you actually find a witch, what are you supposed to do in this day and age?
when i do a 3R or other race I read what they list under the entry… the rules are there as to requirements … I have not ever been DQ’d on a race but ZP has be in a C category which I always tend to run in as I know I am not near the roof of C by any means … I know I am not alone when i see results in zwift pop up with people who are not registered on ZP but are way out of the category … it is why i skip over that entirely and just goto ZP to see where the cleaned results put me … though honestly I am more racing my self and am more about seeing my own personal metrics are showing some improvement over time … the little board ‘trophies’ are nice but given not everyone shows up there seems also pretty empty minus if I run past a common competition ‘NEMESIS’ and get the win on them =P …
I am happy to see they are trying to deal with the sandbagging for those people who really want the actual results feel… and i’ve done my beta races with that feature but again as I know what my ranking is from my ZP category i never have been graced with the ‘cone of shame’ …
sorry the OP had such a bad experience but there is no pleasing everyone and I am thankful to have people putting things together … not always had good experiences my self and have gotten snappish before too USMES group ride was that one from just being dropped by the group when the power rank for the ride was XX but on parts just went to the roof and my reward was being left behind there … I not tried another of theirs yet but I know I will and as I know from previous experience that can happen I’ll just make sure I am fresh enough to thrown down the watts next time and i can be happy if I can hold the wheel
outliers exist and to say he has a 330w ftp means you need to show a ride where he has demonstrated a 330w ftp. i am a pretty extreme outlier myself. i would be extremely pissed if i got DQ’ed on no actual evidence and just speculation
And how do you propose we show a ride of his true potential when he’s consistently sandbagging to come in a fraction under the limits every time?
For the record, Zwift’s beta sandbagging feature works in the same vein, by calculating a rider’s 5-min and 1-min power during the race.
So, if you or another rider is a gifted Pursuiter with no stamina beyond a handful of minutes, the onus is on the rider to prove they’re an outlier.
For that he would have to open his strava so people can look at rides that is not on Zwift power.
It is not rocket science to stay under the cat limit.
What is the estimated FTP of someone who did 3.4 w/kg for 20 minutes this month? Is that cat C or cat B power?
I would say B, up to you though
AFAIK it is 95% 20 mins effort = 3,23 W/kg.
Zwiftpower:
A+ 4.6 W/kg and 300 W FTP
A 4.0 W/kg and 250 W FTP
B 3.2 W/kg and 200 W FTP
C 2.5 W/kg and 150 W FTP
So it depends on the weight, too.
That means if a man with 3.23 W/kg is more than 62 kg his raw W FTP is >200 and he is (bottom) B.
The problem with the W/kg categories - I have a FTP of 260 (A?!) but with my 90 kg it is 2,89 W/kg (C). Was racing in C last winter (ZP said D almost B).
I don’t get racing especially on Zwift. I am relatively new to cycling and never raced. I race on Zwift to push me from start to finish. Despite not winning a B race, only once I did on Zwift power when half field was eliminated. My W/Kg has increased to put me in B group. Great so I race B and get dropped by the pack. I try to sustain a best effort and watch as vultures stay on my wheel for 7 laps and pass me with a power up in final meters so they can finish 21 instead of 22. Everyone other than 1st has technically lost. My time would have put me in 19th place in C group, Although it probably would have been better because I could have drafted during the race. Instead I Race B and have the W/Kg for B but never get a draft so my times will always be slower than half the C group…
Where is the logic. Let me ride B and place in B but if we all rode together at least I could draft some of the C’s instead of hoping I get lapped by the Bs
Might as well just go for an all out ride in Watopia where I can pick up an occasional draft
Many if not most races start all the categories together. You should look for them.
I don’t like it when they all start together because then there’s no race tactics.
I’ve grown so bored with Zwift racing. It’s doomed. So I don’t pop in here that often now. Thus I missed this amusing thread. What a shame.
I had a look at the profile. I mean… WOW! These are some serious cruising skills. This is actually one of the most successful cruiser stories I have seen. I’m impressed. Such a long track record, year after year of cruising. Just looking at 2020: 45 podiums out of 52 races in cat C! And a very successful dodging of the upgrades that loom around every corner of the road. Finding that delicate balance… you have no idea what it takes if you haven’t cruised yourself, to always go oh-so-close but never quite cross that 90-day W/kg line that you could crush with ease. So easy to slip up.
Background music: Push it to the limit BA-DISH! BA-DISH! Walk along the razor’s edge…
So that’s how you cruise. WTG! Just steal that gold from all those VO2Max suckers gasping for air around you HAHAHAHA!
And we have to remember here that while 86 kg is a few kg above average, you are still competing against all the rhinos in Zwift, the 100+ kg legion (their name is Legion for they are many) who benefit from the heavy rider’s heavy advantage in Zwift. As a cruiser it is only too easy to accidentally go over limits and get DQ’d/upgraded when competing against the heavies, who rarely have to worry much about upgrades with their raw killer Watts and silly low W/kg. (It was very tricky for me to cruise at 73 kg - well, far easier than racing fair, granted, but still not easy at all, not if you want the gold over and over for all eternity, like in this profile.)
Don’t get me wrong. I actually don’t think he is doing anything wrong. I disagree with SZR’s decision to DQ him. Firstly, because after-the-fact DQ’ing is an abomination in itself, regardless of whether it’s SZR, ZP or ZHQ doing the DQ’ing. And secondly, because… THIS IS ZWIFT! This is what we signed up for, a cat system and race rules that not only smell like faeces, taste like faeces, but, as it turns out, also happen to be genuine faeces.
He is not breaking Zwift rules. He is not breaking ZP rules. And Zwift, now carrying the burden of responsibility for both rule sets, has decided to do… NOTHING. It’s all good! All hail the underperformer!
Besides, you can’t put a zombie on a life-support machine. What would be the point? W/kg cats are a walking corpse and a DQ won’t change that fact. There is no redemption for our uniquely stupid cat system. Either you smash its head like in that TV series, or you let it eat your brains, like a certain CEO did. But there is no in-between. You either replace it completely or you roll with it… cruuuiiise with it.
Zwift racing below cat A is not sport. It cannot be. Hence cruising is not sport. It’s an art form. Cruising is the only sane thing to do in an insane virtual world. Keep on cruising, brother!
is this your Bloq Andreas?
Yes. Why?
congrats to your Upgrade from d to C!
Yeah, there’s no reason to participate in a system that punishes riders for improving / upgrading and rewards riders for cruising / not improving.
Well, I wasn’t a very good cruiser. Too impulsive. You need self-control. And way too light. I have seen occasional lightweight cruisers but they are kinda rare. Heavies can cruise (low avg HR) without ever realizing they do (some seem completely oblivious) and they don’t get upgraded easily even so.
What would be needed is a total boycott of all cat B and C races. Everyone below A should start racing in D as a protest, although I’m still not 100% sure it would actually cause a reaction. Like I said, Min had his brain eaten by the W/kg zombie, so maybe there is nothing left to react with.
I’ll regurgitate the mantra - the quick fix to five years of failure: