FWIW the PM5 is currently recognized by Zwift, however in its native form you cant get any Watts above 0.
The issue in Zwift offering PM5 compatibility in its native form would seem to be that when you stop rowing or skiing for a break the PM5 will display the last watts pulled. Though the PM5 will not calculate any additional meters during a break it will still display your last pulled wattage. This makes for an advantageous situation for all those cheaters out there looking for free watts/kms as the result is whenever you take a break your avatar is still riding at your last pulled watts in infinity.
Regardless of all the politics surrounding Zwift trainer compatibility, the infinite ways to hack better results, I’m happy to be cycling, rowing, and skiing on Zwift.
Since there’s no coasting (well, very little) on a rowing machine, Zwift could stop the power as soon as the SR drops to zero. OK, there might be a little free power, but really not a lot. And compared to other ergers, it’s a level playing field. OK, more level. C2 ergs will never compete on a par with bike trainers anyway.
Zwift can’t stop the power as I understand. When you stop pulling on a Rower/Skier the PM5 reads watts of last pull, it never zeroes out. As far as reading actual wattage goes, concept2 is great, but when integrated into Zwift the achilles heel would seem to be the inherent nature of the PM5 and its inability to zero out watts when you stop pulling,
Well I was assuming the PM5 also broadcasts stroke rate. I’m sure it would do, because SR is a fundamental statistic for rowers. So Zwift would be able to detect it, equivalent to cadence on a bike.
If the stroke rate is 0, you’re not rowing so the power output can be dropped to 0.
Good point, however SR is not natively broadcasted by the PM5 through BLE as far as I understand.
The CABLE device has a Cadence algorithm (CSCS broadcast) built in that simulates row or ski cadence to cycle cadence. It works well in zwift simulation with a 20-30 row stroke rate when rowing. When skiing, its all outta wack at a 40ish SPM so I just disable cadence pairing when skiing,
It will only take a firmware update from concept2 (working with Zwift) to deal with the zero out issue the PM5 metrics currently have with keeping Zwift as legit as they can.
I think the answer to that is “yes”. It’s more a case of when. In the annual Zwiftcast interview in December, Eric Min suggested he thought rowing was “18 months out” (IIRC). Jon Mayfield has also expressed interest in supporting rowing within Zwift.
I for one am not to upset that there aren’t virtual rivers and ski trails yet on Zwift.
My most favorite aspect of rowing and skiing on Zwift is the drafting dynamics involved, which would be hard to match with rivers and snow trails with few people rowing and skiing. I enjoy catching a draft, staying in a draft, pulling a draft. It has added some much needed variability to my workout effort and some incentive to pull harder which I was lacking before using Zwift when I was just watching a movie or something whilst rowing and skiing for hours and hours, getting very blah.
I use the View #3 on Zwift so my avatar is not visible and I can imagine I’m on any kind of machine cruising through the virtual streets. I cycle on a recumbent trike so my avatar isn’t accurate there either, but I feel no loss with view #3.
Just my 2 cents, I really enjoy the current state of affairs.
Don’t assume the rowing community is small. There are plenty of rowers using Zwift as crosstraining already who would be interested, I am not the only one at my boat club and Cambridge (UK) where I live has a huge rowing population. We spend hours on the C2 staring at the wall. All it would take is some advertising.
Programmed workouts, 2k tests, 30@20’s etc, I’d definitely use. Head races and regattas would be a fun addition. Or just being able to chat to others whilst working my way through another 60mins UT2…
“Christmas 2019” is great news! I currently read ebooks with a wireless clicker attached to the handle. Bit awkward, but it passes the time. Looking forward to doing the Three Rs (Run, Ride, Row) in Zwift!
I started zwifting last fall on my trike, and eventually found painsled for the skier and rower but didn’t like the dropouts and having an extra phone running, plus group rides were jank and there was no option for actual watts, only an option to super mega the watts over the already artificial watts if you were to enable ski mode.
Long story short I found the link you posted above in December which is very well detailed and I ordered the Cable. I no longer report cadence on either the rower or skier because that’s just weird and Zwift does a better job at simulating cadence when you don’t sync it from a non-bike device. True watts and a solid connection to both old and new PM5’s.
Thanks for taking the time to put that imgur doc together.
Found this thread via a Google search result for ‘Zwift Rowing’
+1 to Zwift & Concept 2 working together to do a first party implementation of connecting Zwift. I would absolutely subscribe to Zwift if this were to take place.
Just set a Google Calendar reminder to revisit this thread at a point in the future.
Nothing against runners, rowers, skiers et al. But this is what leaves me more than a little disgruntled. Why should I be funding through my sub something which I am never going to use?
Agreed, and after a test today on Windows PC, both Bluetooth and ANT FEC connect with the PM5 and are recognized by Zwift. Both connections still show 0 watts though, also tested going into a ride and no amount of pulling broke 0.
NPE Cable is still rock solid.
I’m sure someone at Zwift is working on the algo’s to bring the direct connection to life. It’s cleaner and in Zwift’s best interest to facilitate less people use the watt multiplying solutions.
Zwift should implement a rowing bike rather than on water rowing. This would offer rowers something totally unique and fun with pack racing, drafting, and going up and down hills. Moreover, adding a rowing bike should be significantly easier to develop than a water based rowing simulator.
Yeah, said that myself. A rowbike equivalent would make it obvious who’s on a rowing machine (it could be auto-selected when pairing a PM5 for example), and means we can just use the same roads as everyone else. Much less needed in terms of development support than any sort of dedicated rowing environment.
Also, an a Rowbike you go forwards. On a rowing machine you’d be rowing backwards, so it’d be a completely different (and a bit peculiar) experience I think. (Unless they implemented it as kayacking or canoeing, but those are very different arm-based motions so make less sense than the rowbike.)
There are other rowing bikes besides the Rowbike. Compared to these other rowing bikes, the Rowbike looks a little awkward. The Row Cycle seems to allow a more natural rowing motion that most closely matches the Concept 2. The only downside is that it has three wheels, but I am sure that in Zwift you could create a two wheel version. The RowingBike seems to be popular although the rowing motion does look a little different.
Yeah it was just an example of the type of thing that they could do relatively easily to accommodate us. No statement implied as to whether it was the best thing of that ilk to make.
I am currently a Zwift cyclist & runner but, also own a Concept C2 PM5 Rower.
I to would LOVE to see Zwift add rowing. I could see this being used by home users as well as gym users (like the gym treadmill Zwifters) - I currently don’t want to use the rower to bike apps (rowedbike painsled, etc…) because I don’t want to “mess up” my cycling zwift numbers since rowing is a different power curve and wattage etc…