Yeah, I’m not sure how they handle DNF, it might be that is why there were so many up arrows because people ‘beat’ the folks that DNFd. In the race I did this week there were 27 starters and 15 finishers, so how they handle DNFs can be pretty impactful.
Edit: Meant DNFs, not DQ.
I’ve seen it not account for DNF. This could be what changed on the patch or a minimum distance complete to count
i gained 3pts for a 4th place earlier in a field size of 81, and 10pts for shoving a bunch of team mtnt guys into a virtual locker and coming 2nd yesterday… but my seed is not that high
i lose 10-20pts for a poor result… i’m not about to get the red string out out because i think in another 50 patches i won’t have to guess, but i think zrs is basically saying i have a history of winning or doing well in races and scoring me on that assumption
Sandbagging. In CE are you a sandbagger if you were a heavier racer at the top of the category? It is all related to the category system. I’m just saying that this is an exciting format and a format that many like (obviously). Like it or not. I can’t control if you like it or not.
If your idea of racing is z2 then sprinting you could race harder on a higher cat and do z2 on a pace partner, so yes
If people want that make a pace and race group ride and publish results.
The actual full length formula, is:
Number of signups + # of DNFs / 2 = approx position where down arrows begin
I completely agree—there’s no right or wrong way to race, especially in a diverse community like Zwift. Every racer brings their own goals, experience, and preferences to the table, and that’s what makes it so unique. Some riders are in it for competition, while others just want a good workout or to feel the thrill of being part of the pack. Age, fitness level, and personal goals all shape how someone approaches racing.
If you’re past your heydays, that doesn’t make your way of racing any less valid. In fact, it’s great that you can still enjoy it on your terms. Zwift is for everyone, no matter their age or competitive level. The variety of styles and goals is what keeps it interesting. Whether you’re going all-out for a breakaway or just enjoying the ride with a steady effort, both approaches are completely legitimate. There’s room for all kinds of racers!
I think I peaked 30 years ago, but I’m still enjoying the ride. Zwift racing, for me, isn’t about trying to relive my glory days or hit some peak performance again. It’s about staying active, having fun, and feeling that rush of being in the race. Whether it’s chasing a breakaway, pushing myself in a sprint, or just hanging on for as long as I can, I’m here for the experience, not the results.
I get that there are all types of riders on Zwift—some are in their prime, others are just starting out, and people like me are well past their heydays. And that’s exactly what makes it so great. There’s no right or wrong way to race. Whether you’re here to win or just to enjoy the workout and the competition, we all bring something different to the platform.
For me, the thrill is in still being part of it, pushing myself when I can, and racing how I want to. It’s been decades since my peak, but I’m still out here having fun—and that’s what keeps me going.
Anything for the no HR riders?
Nah… I think they’re included by virtue of the fact that they’re in the number of signups. Of course, this formula isn’t at all a logical one, but seems to work.
Which answer(s) do you hate the least;
The definition of a “race” is a “competition of speed” where participants strive to complete a set course or distance in the shortest amount of time.
We are talking about a ZRS or CE system (or VELO) to group people based on their similar abilities (when trying) so that racing can be fair. If you feel that you want an easier ride than this, then you are talking about the different approach to the majority.
There is a pre-existing format for what you want, and it is a group ride with a result screen. AHDR has run this format for years, Plenty of group rides have an after party. ToW can be used for this. Filter on Zwift Hacks.
You are free to enter single pen/all cats together races and sit with a lower group at Z2 then sprint against them if you want.
You quite simply mean “riders” when you say “all kinds of racers”.
If it’s an age-based thing, then explore the masters and age category racing options, which band based on age, not ability.
Why when your thing exists do you think it’s ok to dictate changes to my thing (actual racing)? It’s a two sided argument.
If nothing else the person at 805 went up because of podium bonus.
And while it still seems that there’s a dividing line in the results where everyone above goes up and everyone below goes down, what we don’t have great visibility of is the magnitude of those changes. In a race of 50 riders, does finishing 4th yield a bigger score bump than a 20th place finish? Does the size of the increase depend on the scores of those you beat? Does the size of the increase fall on a sliding scale the correlates with raw finishing position? Until we can see the score history for both ourselves and others that’s pretty hard to figure out. I suppose if you looked at sign-ups for an in-progress race and grabbed their pre-race scores you could do a bit of a comparison. But that’s a lot of work to try and figure out something they might be actively tweaking on a regular basis.
I think you bring up a valid point about the definition of racing and how Zwift’s CE or ZRS systems are designed to create fair competition by grouping people based on ability. That’s definitely the core of what most people expect in a race, where everyone is pushing themselves to finish as fast as possible.
But I think it’s also important to acknowledge that Zwift attracts a really wide variety of riders, and not everyone is racing with the same goals. For some, it’s all about the competitive edge, while others might be in it for the fitness challenge or the experience, even if they’re not vying for a top finish. That’s why you see people talking about different race strategies—some prefer a steady effort with a sprint at the end, and for them, that’s still “racing” in their minds, even if it doesn’t fit the traditional definition.
I don’t think it’s about dictating changes to your experience as a competitive racer, but rather acknowledging that the Zwift community is diverse. For people who may not be able to push at max power anymore (whether it’s age or fitness), the experience of being part of a race, even at a lower intensity, is still exciting for them. I can see how it feels frustrating when someone’s race strategy doesn’t match the competitive nature of a race you’re in, but Zwift’s flexibility also allows for a variety of experiences within that same race framework.
That said, you’re right that there are other formats like group rides with results screens, after-parties, and age-based categories for people who want a less competitive vibe. But Zwift racing is evolving, and as much as it’s about competitive racing, it’s also about inclusivity. There’s room for those who want to go all-out, as well as those who just want to be part of the race in their own way. Finding the balance is what keeps the platform interesting for everyone.
I’ve raced in A, B, and C categories, and honestly, it doesn’t change the excitement or challenge for me. Each category brings its own level of competition, and I still find the thrill of racing no matter where I’m placed. It’s not always about being in the “right” category for peak performance—sometimes it’s just about being part of the action, pushing myself, and enjoying the experience.
For me, the challenge is personal. Whether I’m fighting for a top spot in a higher category or just trying to hang on in a lower one, it’s still exciting. Racing is about more than just the results; it’s the adrenaline, the tactics, and the fun of competing, no matter what level I’m at.
The “shopping cart problem” applies here;
If people had behaved and not entered a lower cat simply to blow it up and feel like a champ then we wouldn’t need cat enforcement.
People do this all the time though, less so in CE/ZRS but they still do it.
You are right. You win 
I’m pretty confident they would have gone up if they had been 4th too - without a podium bonus. From the races I’ve done so far the correlation for up arrows tends to be more position based than relating to the ZRS of the folks around them. I’ve personally gained about the same amount of points in each race so far (for about the same position).
Have you seen an example where a highly ZRS ranked player (like the highest in the field even) went down points if they were in the top quarter of finishers? I haven’t yet.
I agree with you on which people get up arrows. What I’m curious about is the size of their increase. Completely making up these numbers because I have yet to finish in the top half of a RS race 
, but does it go something like this?:
Or does the number of points go up based on the relative differences in riders’ scores?
#thingsispendtoomuchtimethinkingabout
Relative scores don’t seem to come into it at all.
Top half finishers go up.
Bottom half finishers go down.
Podium gets a bonus.
But since their last race finish, there could be Racing Score decay and/or power seed score changes.
The score arrow shows the net change since the last race they finished.
So you can get someone who finished just above middle who gets a net decrease, or someone who finished just below middle who gets a net increase.
Here is my score movement against VELO movement for the first 10 races under ZRS.
You can infer the strength of the field from the VELO changes. The 25 ZRS jump was beating an 820 ZRS person who was not trying. I am surprised the 1 of 3 caused an update to VELO because I thought there was a minimum field.
Interesting. The first race was the only one in a lower cat correct? It is interesting that beating one person (who might or might not be trying) in the 690+ cat was worth more than beating all 16 people in the <690 cat.
