ZRS changes and DNF

Might have been answered/discussed, but whats the reasoning behind zrs not changing if you dont finish the race and are considered DNF. Most races I do, about half quit the race before finish line and their score dont get affected. Thanks

Which way should they move?
By not finishing have they come last and should get a deduction? Easy tanking.
Or should they have their score increase as a deterrent? Or is a higher score a reward?

Given the current state of the rest of ZRS, zero movement for a DNF is probably the right way to do it.

Higher score should be a reward, yes. And maybe, even if DNF-ers score dont get affected, the winners scores should get positive boost from beating them. Just right now it looks people give up easily when they get dropped.

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That’s basically how zwiftracing.app handles it. As long as they’ve completed a certain percentage of the race distance.

It feels like a good way to do it, but maybe it works better in a vELO system than it would in OpenSkill.

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As far as anyone can tell someone doesn’t even have to start a race for people to get a boost from “beating” them - just register

But currently, the more people that signup for a race or even finish the race, the smaller the result score changes are eg. winning a race against one other person in your pen gives more points than winning against 100 racers…

Which makes sense for a shooting game where you might not encounter everyone equally, but makes absolutely no sense when you are constantly racing everyone in a cycling race on Zwift! :clown_face:

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Which way should they move?
By not finishing have they come last and should get a deduction? Easy tanking.
Or should they have their score increase as a deterrent? Or is a higher score a reward?

Given the current state of the rest of ZRS, zero movement for a DNF is probably the right way to do it.

Bit of a thread necro here, but I do think the current approach is incentivizing DNFs. The best approach might be to prevent them from improving in the future for a game. Meaning, the next completed race where they should earn a ZRS increase, they’re awarded 0.

That seems like a sandbaggers paradise. They could just DNF every other race and win as much as they want on the races that are blocked from increasing ZRS.

It’s difficult to properly handle DNFs, because different people look at ZRS differently and might DNF for different reasons. A sandbagger only cares about winning races, and they want their ZRS as low as possible to make it easier to win. They might DNF a race where they would finish near the front but can’t win. Another person sees ZRS as rating of their quality as a racer, and they want it get as high as possible. They might DNF a race when they’re getting dropped and would otherwise lose ZRS points.

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FAQ says no decrease in racing score from a DNF. I haven’t tested it to see if it works but I think some others here probably know.

Ah yes, you’re right. I didn’t consider the impact on sandbaggers. Frustrating problem.

I think the people who DNF races when dropped are a little annoying at worst and don’t ruin races, so it’s more important to do whatever possible prevent sandbagging when the two goals are in conflict.

For discouraging DNFs in general, I think Zwift should give an XP and/or Drop bonus for completing any race. My suggestion would be that races give XP at 75% the normal rate per mile/km during the race and then give a 50% bonus when you finish (the exact numbers aren’t important). That would encourage riders (especially new riders) to race and finish.

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DNF get +10 points you dnf 10 times, now race up full tier, have fun with that if you think bad time racing now just that much harder.