WKG seems harsh, do i need to move to group B?

So i’ve been on a diet and am losing 1kg a week, i’m also training more than normal to try and improve. Today i felt good and had a really good race. I went onto Zwift power to check my results and i’ve been WKG’d!! I’ve also been a cat C rider forever, although i’m new ish to zwift power. Wouldn’t it have been fairer for zwift power to include my results for this race, congratulate me and advise me to move up to group B rather than WKG me!!
I’m guessing i need to be in group B now? i never even managed a top 5 in group C!!!

Refer to this thread: https://forums.zwift.com/t/zwiftpower-discussions-now-hosted-here-january-2021/

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They’ll WKG you for individual races if you go more than 0.1w/kg over the limit for the entire event. 3.5 is more than 0.2 over the line so there you go. Until you run over that line for three events within a 90 day window, you’ll stay a C. You might get the warning of “Almost B” in your Category line. That’s sort of a Sword of Damocles…

All that said, Congrats are in order for the improvement. Going to B can be a tough row to hoe, though.

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Thanks, strange that if i had gone slightly slower i would have been in the top 5. But its an improvement which is good i guess.

That’s the spirit. Unfortunately rapid performance gains like your own usual result in upgrades without any wins.

As soon as you settle out you can start racing tactically to try and take podiums

Congratulations on the weight loss and the upgrade.

Yes in a perfect world it would be nice to have the winning result next to your name before upgrading.

Nice work! Racing on Zwift is one of the toughest things I’ve tried on the bike, and that’s even comparing it to racing 'cross. Well done on your fitness improvements.

The WKG is almost always automatically applied, and it’s pretty common for folks to get them frequently when they’re newer to the site as well. While it does a fair job at catching folks trying to sandbag, you’ll sometimes get them where the race was close and you really dug deep, causing you just go just over the category limit.

After your results even out, as others have rightly said will happen, you can always write into us at zwiftpower@zwift.com so we can sort out any egregious tags that may happen in the future.

May your legs stay fresh and your fans keep you cool.

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Same happended to me. Maybe (I guess almost certain) due to my low understanding, how zwiftpower works. I followed the instructions of the events very carefully as far as rules, allowed equipment goes in a race.
I am a strong Cat B rider but rarely took part in the events. In that particular race I had one of those rare days where your legs are ready to ride Tour-de-France and I went over Cat B limits the entire time. Ended up with WKG plus upgraded to Cat A now. Another result which does not count on my zwiftpower record.
■■■■, I have to race now with all those super legs in A and if I am not lucky to have another good day, well, pedaling on your own can be calming too.

Another thing I do not get: another Cat B Rider in that race was 30 secs faster than me (in 45min overall race time) stayed in the range with 3.9 W/kg average while mine was 4.4 W/kg pushing absolute 35 Watts more than him. And we are both the same height and weight! How is this possible???
The course was Bologna 2 times with some flats and hard climbs. I was always riding on my own. Could drafting make such a big difference even 1/3 of the race time was climbing only?

Can’t really figure out all the tricks, do not understand all the statistics and the algorithms are a mistery to me.

I’m in a similarly very weird position. New to ZwiftPower, only signed up I think end Nov for nations cup, then came off the MTB (IRL) and got a knee injury.

So… I never “raced” (even before I signed up) and I rehabbed knee and got it feeling good on the bike at least. Running is only now starting to become good. So by the time I entered a race, I was at bottom of B. And got annihilated. Think I tried my hand twice at racing in B, simply noooo contest. Even got beaten by a D rider putting out 4.5, but hey, that is an entirely different matter…

For sheer fun I entered some TT rides of late. Now people, I am NOT a TT-er. I don’t have the weight or the strength for that. And I got relatively creamed in Ryzon rides, in Cancellara chases, the works. Yet… I have looked at my stats afterwards and in all of those nearly ridden myself OUT of the top of B cat with those TT efforts, into a new FTP and all.

I am so confused about what’s going on that I’m following this with interest. How can I not even be in the ball park at the races, yet almost out of cat in TT’s? And to repeat, I am NOT a TT’er. I weight 64, which should be more than enough to say I’m not one.

Hi @Christo_Bekker

Races start super hard, you will have to have a high 5 min power to stay with the front guys. It usually settle after 5 min. You look like a climber so pick races with climbs in the beginning.

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there’s so much more to zwift than just raw w/kg.
frame/wheels choice, drafting (in non-TT events), powerup usage, knowing where to rest and where to attack, knowing how to win a sprint finish etc. for TT’s, pacing method can make a world of difference to ur result.

if ur entering Cat B TT events using the basic Zwift TT bike, expect to get annihilated.

2laps Tempus Fugit test…
Best TT Cervelo P5x, Felt IA … 2984 sec
Zwift TT … 3016 sec (+1.07%)

Yes, it is an disadvantage, but annihilated?
I think in a TT pace is more important, two riders with the same average Watts can gain/lose much more time with wrong pacing.

Hi Ben, I think you misunderstood. And sorry, English is not my first language.

What I’m saying is the opposite. I did the “open” TT rides and (as I expected) did not quite win the event. Which is fair. Far from last, though. (Two of these were on standardised equipment - the Chasing Cancellara rides)
But, I got PROPERLY creamed in the “normal” B cat race or two I did before that. And this is where I agree with your 1st paragraph. There’s a lot more to racing… and obviously I know only so much, being a trail running MTB’er IRL.

My “problem” with this however is… I get thoroughly beaten in the cat B road events. But now my TT “fun” events are going to end up taking me almost into cat A! There’s my “what on earth is going on here” question? Because by now 3/3 of my top events are now TT’s, which I did for fun, not being a (real life) TT’er AT ALL. And I have 5 more coming up in the duathlon series.

Anyways, it seems I have a lot to learn, and hopefully I do not TT myself for the fun of it into cat A before then.

Edit: Oh… PS. I was a roadie (IRL) before becoming an IRL MTB’er. Before becoming a trail runner. And now returning to MTB for (what I see as as) fun.

I mean at the end of the day, if your 20min time puts you in Cat A, then you just gotta suck it up and ride at the back of Cat A.

Zwift Road Races are a fine art, there’s a lot of technicalities to them, and the people fighting for podiums are often exploiting every trick in the book in order to do so (in EVERY Cat).

Just because you’re getting creamed in Zwift races, does not mean you can’t be promoted if your 20min power is good, cos that’s all the categorisation system here cares about.

Anyway it sounds like you are a TT specialist, Zwift racing is all about punch, how hard can you surge when needed and how often can you do it, with minimal recovery. Very different skillset to TT pacing. Most races though, you need to know the route (and where to use powerups), you want to be using the best frame/wheels you can get your hands on, then your goal is to draft as much as possible, conserve as much energy as possible, WITHOUT letting a group break away ahead of you, then in the final few km, things will really start to ramp up, culminating in an epic sprint finish. Breaking away early is very hard and very inefficient, so most races end with a bunch sprint. If your 1min and 15sec power is low, then ur gna have a bad time, so start throwing some anerobic interval sessions into your training if you want to get better at Zwift road races :smiley:

as an example - what frame / wheels did you use in your most recent zwift road race…?

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Thanks for the feedback, Ben, appreciated. Yes, I must still learn how to race in Zwift, since I’ve only used Zwift for training 99% of the time. And that will remain to be the case. I have outdoor goals which I am chasing.

At 64kg (my max weight since Oct!) I’m not a TT specialist… Maybe in Zwift, but not IRL. I’m more of a climbing allrounder. I merely used myself as an example of how flawed current w/kg the system is. And how baffled I was at my TT figures. Because over the last 3 TT rides, they remained pretty darned consistent. To my surprise!

That all said, the odd Zwift race in my mind seemed like a fun idea to get the intense efforts. And as you said, it’s something I need to learn to do. Keeping in mind, I most often train twice daily and races merely fits into that schedule. So it’s not as if I’m tapering for these races.

As to the question: Last road race was on Casse Pattes and I used a Venge S-Works with the DT Swiss wheels for the last climb instead of the 858’s.

ok so what positon did you come in the race, what was your average w/kg and what was the problem?
cos it wasn’t frame/wheel choice.

Aqueduct is a critical surge point in casse pattes where you wanna go full send (ideally out the saddle) and if you get dropped from the lead group or end up riding solo at any point you’re basically done for. KOM is also obviously critical as well - but there’s still a long way to the finish line so solo breaks are difficult to maintain. But finish can be a right old slog, long distance attacks can burn out sprinters AND the final sprint is hella long. So it’s quite a technical course. If ur not a sprinter and want to go long, make sure you get a clean break with like 2k to go and then you just gotta go full send until the finish line. It works against me anyway :smiley:

and yea if ur racing seriously you want to be fresh i.e. no/minimal riding the day before the race etc.
if ur already fatigued then don’t be surprised if you get dropped :smiley:

i think the issue with your racing is potentially you don’t have good enough burst power to contest sprint finish or make a clean breakaway perhaps…? generally you won’t win any races as a mid-lighweight rider by just grinding away at cat limit w/kg - heavier riders will be faster and super lightweight riders can output higher w/kg without being DQ’d. so you gotta spice it up a bit :smiley:

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Thanks Ben - you are most likely spot-on with the assessment. I have no requirement for burst power in my real-world cycling, so do not train for it. Might work on it for fun and see what happens.

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U train ( cycle twice a day) Are you a pro making money? Not trying to be rude but im a big believer in not doing “garbage miles” if you were really pushing yourself hard you could not train twice a day, or you are just tearing your body down so much and cant build and become stronger. Once you have the endurance down. ( which it sounds like you do ) Cut back on that training, do serious i tervals to the point of throwing up, hit the gym, eat more food and protein, take the right supplements. Decide what you want. If you want to place in zwift races, find your catagory that fits your endurance. Then train or just race ( as i do ) to place. I cycle 3x a week in C cat. Every race i struggle at certain points to stay with the lead grp. But in the end i have a developed sprint that usually gets me a podium or close .

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Can anyone help. Fairly new, after 3 C category races, zwiftpower now says cat B. I haven’t really progressed much FTP… Will I be disqualified in cat C race groups now?

Yes.

Good racecraft can make up for lower FTP.

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