I am curious about races like this
ZHQ FutureWorks Circuit Race - Anti-sandbagging (C)
Says Anti-sandbagging, but the top riders in C class were all diong 3.3-3.6w/kg steady…when the max was 3.1 for class C…
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Once upon a time, you’d a green cone of shame and have your power throttled in the ZHQ Futureworks races if you rode above the cat limit. As far as I can tell that doesn’t happen anymore. It seems the “anti-sandbagging” consists solely of getting a warning if you join a cat lower than your FTP would suggest and that’s it, no actual enforcement, just a friendly little warning which you can ignore if you don’t want to get your feelings hurt by not finishing with the front of race.
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I’m going to be controversial and say you should be allowed to enter lower Cats. Bear with me.
I have in the past helped people in their first race and if I’ve had an injury or a hard work out I occasionally like an “easier” race. BUT and it’s a big BUT
I do not take the lead I sit toward the back of the bunch and don’t compete the sprint.
The way races are spoilt is higher Cat racers putting out higher sustained power so how about Zwift gives a threshold. If your average power over a 10 minute rolling period exceeds the upper level for the Cat then you’re pulled from the race. Simple.
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Thats true but I think is not about feelings its about fair competition
Oh - that’s not fair to Zwift about the zero input. They did delete some forum threads pointing out that a member of the Zwift HQ team was sandbagging, so it is actually negative input.
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Unless you wait for everyone else to begin, don’t pass anyone and finish last, then you’ve affected the race and probably spoilt it for someone else. Do a workout.
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I ride out of category 9/10 times. Why?
Cause I’m a B by 0.1W/kg AND I don’t always race, I Zwift most days and many of them are recovery rides. I “raceride” in C or D, ride midpack to the back, bother no-one just enjoy the company of a large group being pulled along at Double Draft. I pay my monthly subs, I want to ride where it suits my riding need for the day.
You’re going to say … so go find yourself a Ride to do, stay away from our races. Most often the races suit my timeslot and there’s not a suitable ride. The pace partners are getting close to solving the ride problem.
Bottom line. The problem is real but blocking riders from lower categories is not the solution. Maybe just make out of cat riders undraftable.
Ride on!
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Why not just do the same in B cat. Most races start all categories at the same time in anyway.
That doesn’t give you permission to break the rules or spoil the fun for many that also pay monthly subs.
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What happens if Zwift forces Zwift’s PWR Cat?
A heavy rider only keeps winning.
The light rider is fixed to the rank under a long way off of the winners’ platform.
And the following joke is said.
“You are too strong, You promote rank”
I can still compete now because I can use Zwiftpower’s Cat.
if this was changed, I did not stand.
I will say in this way if it comes to be forced.
”Zwift of the fat, by the fat, for the fat."
That makes no sense Zwift Power uses watts per kilo not just raw power.
I don’t see how sitting in the bunch no mater who you are spoils a ride. Sitting with a friend on comms for their first ride saying, “you need to put a dig in to get in draft” or “sit in take a breath” helps their confidence which works better in a race where Cats are separated. But if I couldn’t do that I’d equally happily find a mixed field enter B and do the same. No big deal.
The real problems are the person who pushes silly W/Kg and pulls the legs of the field and ruins the race. DQ at the end doesn’t help mid race their needs to be a way of removing them from the race or if it’s a mixed CAT race bump their Category up mid race if they exceed W/KG for a set period of time.
Riding a Cat B race (3.5w/kg+) at 2.0w/kg pace means the bunch disappears even before one has left the starting pen. Tried that. No fun in that. If I ride C/D I can still ride mid/back pack not irritating the Cat C/D racers and have chatty company.
If I want to race, there’s no argument. Race in my Cat, suffer, come last, whatever. No discussion.
Fair point regarding rules. May have come across as entitlement, which would be a red herring. Have no intention of breaking rules, whether written or social or spoil fun for others. Just want to ride in a Cat where I can pace with the bunch or even with other friends.
There’s no foul intention here or trying to find a loophole to spoil races or try and get a virtual podium. I race Thu TTT, that’s it, rest of my “races” are ALL just social rides. I’m after social interaction with people riding a similar pace, not a similar Cat.
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Why would you start a B race at 2 W/kg?? It is a RACE. If it’s a social ride you’re after, there are loads and loads of group rides designed especially for that.
As a C/D racer, trust me I don’t want chatty company when I’m racing on the rivet. I want fair racing with a realistic race dynamic. I save the talk for group rides.
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What, you mean you’re actually trying your hardest? In a race? Strange concept. Have you considered racing in a lower category so you don’t have to?
/s
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Honestly - and this will be an unpopular opinion - but until Zwift does something, I am going to continue racing one category down.
I am a C class rider.
So I have two choices:
- ride in the C category: in this case, I get dropped by the lead group immediately, end up racing by myself, cross the finish line having no idea where I am, go to ZwiftPower and see where I actually finished. The experience is not of a race but a frustrating solo experience.
Or
- ride in the D category: in this case, I will be able to stay with the lead group, take turns pulling, be hyper aware of attacks off the front and try to counter them and then sprint it out at the end for the podium. The experience is of an actual race.
I couldn’t care less about what Zwift Power says and if it disqualifies me. My choice is either having a race experience or not. And I know what I am choosing every time.
Of course if the rules were ACTUALLY enforced and Class C were actual 3 w/kg riders and I could race with just them and not people pulling 5 w/kg, then I will be more than happy to choose the right category.
Sorry. Not sorry.
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But it is people just like you thinking like you that you don’t want in the race. That does not make a lot of sense. You can’t be part of the problem and expect others to follow the rules.
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I’ve posted this somewhere before, but an easy (temporary) solution for me would be the following.
All race cats start together;
Minimum cat is always enforced, free to enter a higher cat;
You can only see and draft racers of your own cat;
And now the kicker - Addition of an ‘Open’ category;
See and draft all racers of all cats
Non Open cat riders cannot see or draft you
Why? Now you can always ride lower than your cat if you feel a need for it. Think of no race experience, playing team car, injury, course doesn’t suit race profile, no suitable group ride available, or simply too big of a gap after upgrading.
Hopefully this would keep all customers happy and provide a real race experience for everyone.
I am 100% aware that I am now part of the problem. But until it’s fixed, I have a choice to either have a real race experience or a “virtual one where the real classification just happens in the ether”.
And the second Zwift auto assigns categories, this is all solved.
But until then, I am sorry but I don’t even see this as a choice.
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When you and others choose #2, what choice are you leaving for legitimate D racers?
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None. Very clear about that. In all of this mess, the people that get truly screwed are the true Class D riders. They have no option for a real race experience until the rules are perfectly enforced.
yes they get screwed by YOU!!
Why wait until a law get enforced before you follow it.
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