The kiss community league


(Gerrie) #1

I don’t think this should be called a “Community” League, this event is only for the top 100 Zwifters. Community should include every one and this is clearly not the case with this. There is no point in racing if you are a B,C or D rider.


(Nigel ) #2

Maybe rename it “Kiss Elitist League”?


(Daren) #3

Why not?

By extension, this argument means there’s no point racing if you are anything other than a top 10 racer.

The majority of any race field have no chance of winning the race.


(Gerrie) #4

@Daren_Chandisingh_VI I do agree to a point if it is all about winning. But not all of us can compete with the top guys but we can compete against similar ability riders. i know that winning in the C bunch is not really winning.

This KISS League will be a mass start event with no Categories basically like the TdZ and then riders get filtered after the race. So a C rider has to go flat out chase every attach and breakaway just in case that rider is a C. This may make you a stronger rider but it is not fun or should I say not as much fun as it could be.

The fun of Cycling is the tactics that get used in racing, with more Categories there is more change of that coming in to play.

" The majority of any race field have no chance of winning the race." But with 5 or 10 categories there are more riders that can feel like winners, if a rider win Cat K he will want to improve to win J, that will spark and draw more interest.

When I started racing IRL we had multiple start groups and we would train hard and race hard just so we get moved up to the next group.


(Daren) #5

Not all races were staggered starts anyway. Certainly not the ones I’ve ridden lately.

So it always ended up being a case of me going hard(ish), settling into a group and then trying to hang with that group and beat them at the end.

Even as a “C” rider there’s a range of ability. And even if all the other riders in your start are C as well, not everyone can compete for the C win. So you have the same problem you describe, just across a smaller group of people.

As you say, not everyone can win. And that’s true even if there are 20 categories.

I think if anyone does a race series regularly, they will come to learn who their competition is. Even if they don’t, they’ll get to know what their performance level is, and they can strive to beat that even without any other sort of sub-categorisation.

I don’t dislike the A-D categories we have in other race series (this is only effective in KISS, after all, so far). But I don’t think losing them is the end of the world either. =)


(Gerrie) #6

Not all races are staggered that is one of my big complaints, IRL different groups start at different times.

Settling into a group is not racing in my eyes that is a group ride with a sprint. Racing is to see how close to #1 you can get and the close you get the harder you work adrenaline kick in and all those nice things. Even if #1 is the top C guy that is 80 places behind the real #1.

In my mind something click if i see I can possibly get a top 10 result in a C race, the same just don’t happen if I see i am in the top 50 of a mixed group.

Zwift want to be all inclusive and fun, but I think this direction is exactly the opposite.

And please don’t get me wrong I appreciate your opinion mine is also just a option.

I just want Zwift to take note on how some of us feel.


(Fez) #7

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t there talk of an amateur racing league (B,C,D) following sometime after Zwift works out the bugs with the super leagues?


(Gerrie) #8

@Fez_Rockbottom: I had that thought but now we have the COMMUNITY LEAGUE after the KISS SUPER LEAGUE. so in my mind the COMMUNITY LEAGUE is the amateur racing league .

Or is there another LEAGUE on its way?


(Fez) #9

This is the first I have heard of a community league to be honest, so perhaps that is the amateur racing league. When does that start?

I wonder if Zwift could partner with some digital scale companies to use your home wifi to automatically update someone’s weight in Zwift before a race?


(Daren) #10

Not always. I’ve watched E,1,2 races, as well as 3,4 ones. In the UK at least - I have no experience of what other countries do.

And as for a “group ride followed by a sprint” does that apply to things like stages of the Grand Tours? Say a breakaway goes and gets reeled in, only for the sprinters who’ve sat in the peloton all day to thrash it out at the end. Was that not a race?

I see no difference between targeting top 10 in a C race and targeting top half of an open race.

I absolutely appreciate that it’s just an opinion. But this is a discussion forum and they’re rubbish without discussion. :smiley:

I assume the removal of categories in the KISS races is intended as a way of addressing sandbagging. A B rider can’t sit down in the Cs so they can win if those categories are automatically determined after the race - or don’t exist at all.

In the end, while KISS are providing this series, ultimately they’re independent of Zwift. (At least, as far as I know it’s still ostensibly a community-driven series.) In the end, if you don’t like how they decide to run their races, you can of course just ride other race series that are run the way you prefer. As it is, KISS was (as I recall) born out of frustration with other race series banning the use of powerups, or mandating certain bikes. So KISS was set up exactly because someone didn’t like the way other race series were run. It’s a little ironic I suppose if some people are upset with how KISS has changed, but they can’t please everyone.


(Gerrie) #11

Today Zwift announced the details of the KISS leagues which will soon be launching for pro and amateur racers.



(Johnathan) #12

It’s not even the top 100 Zwifter’s. There were 60 starters and maybe a quarter of them had ever used raced on Zwift before. I think the take away from this event should be that there is a real racing community that can more than manage the pros, so there is no reason to make the race so exclusive. Anyone that can legitimately hold 5 W/KG or more for 20 minutes should be given an invitation to race. Also I don’t know about you but this race happens at noon and I was stuck in the office so I think you’re excluding a lot of Americans that have a talent to be in this race.

From the pros I’ve also heard stories of them not knowing to set their trainer to the FE-C channel.


(Johnathan) #13

Oops sorry I’m kiss yet another Kiss league confused with their hyper-exclusive stuper league.