Need a 2.4 w/kg bot. You are ignoring the middle of the bell curve.
1 Like
Me too 
Yep. It was crazy previously. Completely unnatural.
Overall, I’m pretty happy with the RPs, though some of the modifications already suggested would improve the experience. The only significant one I’d add is to put the RPs on TT bikes so that they’re not affected by being in the draft of a large group.
Having the RP permanently on the right sidebar (as it is with our Holos) would also be useful.
2 Likes
Sure, I can appreciate it works differently for different riders. I think the answer is to have both a steady and dynamic pacer for each nominal “pace”.
So you don’t want the group size to impact the ride but are happy with the route profile to impact the ride. 
One is consistent and repeatable. The other isn’t. I’ll let you work out which is which. 
1 Like
LOL
But on another point if you ride right behind the Pacer you should not notice any difference between 5 or 100 riders, since the bot does the same wattage and should would you to keep up.
Good example is Coco this week. Both options are short loops, one hilly in Scotland with <5 riders and the other flat in Watopia with >70 riders.
An hour on either is a bit monotonous, and clearly most people like the flat option (I actually like both on different days). I feel the smaller groups give more reliable pacing even with 4.1. So basically this week is something of a turn-off for RP riding, and I’m a regular user of it.
Exactly what an adjustable bias could solve for you 
You would be able to ride with Maria, after entering in a +18% value to get to required same wattage you’d have needed to stay with Coco, and enjoy the Triple Flat or Muckle Yin longer routes.
With teleport, there is more reason to have a 0.2wkg step from 1.8 to 3.2 on Watopia, maybe Makuri too.
Send at least one of the stronger A/B/C bots up a big hill for the climbers to chase
Most of us will prefer the flatter routes, as was proved last year by James and his testing.
Zwift must auto log metrics on these bots ?
Maybe have 4 on France, even run them as static wkg ? Full OG style bots for the Hipsters
I really don’t understand this. So you are saying you want a virtual brake on the trainer so you need to produce more power to go slower and less power to go faster?
Perhaps it could be a “throw away my Watts” feature so you can set it at 90% and have it reduce the reported power to the game by 10%? That sounds less disruptive than letting people crank up their power to get more of the pacer incentives (distance, XP, drops, etc). It could also let people compensate for bad trainers that over report power but can’t be calibrated to fix it.
2 Likes
I used to not be a big pace partner fan but they make up most of my rides now. This is because I can’t count on having the full duration for a base ride uninterrupted or cut short so it’s a good way to jump in for (hopefully) an hour. I pretty much only use them for base rides, though I do use them for pre-race warmups sometimes.
The biggest thing that keeps me from joining a pace partner is a small group. The bots on hillier routes are usually with very small groups and so I’ll pick the bot with a bigger group but on, say Volcano Flat or Tick Tock, instead of the alone-bot on Three Sisters even though I’d be happy to do the hillier route. I pretty much never join a Tempus bot because the orange/brown is so unaesthetic.
Surgy behavior would be annoying in the past but PD4.1 has gone a very long way to improving that. To the point I’d say “problem solved” based on the couple rides I’ve done under 4.1
I’d like to see them called Pace Partners again and also be robo-holograms.
More options to ride with pace partners up climbs would be nice. I set an alpe PR a year ago hanging with the A bot as long as I could and then pushing to the end. Having it only be once a month means I’ll probably never actually want to do it at the same time as one of the events. Just put some bots on perpetual climbs, build a little loop at the base of the alpe for lapping it if that’s what it takes. vEveresters would appreciate it as well.
1 Like
If the bot is on the front you can sit in doing roughly 25% less power. If a few people get out front and start pulling you have to do the full advertised effort or you’ll get dropped.
1 Like
the bot will then also get dropped, so just hang on the bot.
Incorrect. Let’s take Jacques for example. 240w at all times (assuming flat). I can sit in behind at about 200w if the bot is on the front. If a few people get in front and start doing, say, 270w, the bot will stay attached to that group while doing 240w, and will speed up. If I maintain 200w I will get dropped.
3 Likes
I agree, the closer the bot moves (or is forced) towards the back of a large group the closer you, sitting behind the bot, have to do exactly the same watts as the bot (assuming same weight and height) to maintain your position both behind the bot and in the pack.
3 Likes
Basically, except your “less power to go faster” part. Only should work one way (go slower for power produced) for obvious reasons (one being that if you allowed that, everyone would up their speed bias and be joining Connie).
That said, for the Maria vs Coco example, I just fan viewed both groups and on the flat section Coco group seems to settle in at 23mph, Maria’s group numbers kept bouncing between 22 and 23mph. So someone’s tweaks to their speed bias doesn’t have to mean drastic differences in resulting speed and therefore distance travelled.
Should be familiar experience if anyone’s ever done a banded meetup or a group training workout in that you’re not going what your true speed should be. But, it would be much more precise than futzing with bike or wheel type, your height or your weight to hopefully obtain a comparable effect (especially since bike type, weight have different physics as well, depending on course surface and eg. downhills).
I did my first ride under PD4.1 today with several RoboPacers and found it… challenging.
I was either zooming past the Pacers or I’d get spat out the back of the pack.
Someone in the chat suggested PD4.1 is “more realistic.” Is it? I felt like I had to stay right on top of the “bubble” and if I fell off, it was way more work to get back on. PD4.0 was way more relaxing.
Context: 80kg rider, rode with the D pacers, Taylor (1.1W/kg - Flat Route), Bernie (1.5W/kg - Big Foot Hills), Miguel (1.8W/kg - Volcano Circuit) in Watopia.
2 Likes
Unless maybe if they put the RPs on a TT bike?
1 Like