Yes, I agree that this technique can be learned, but it becomes quite apparent in the high-speed Tiny races. If you’re at the back when the pack stretches, the race is essentially over. This is true even if it happens on a descent, where you should have the best drafting effect. Yes, it is dangerous to be at the back IRL as well, but this is a bit too much compared to IRL IMO. I’ve found it easier to stay within the pack for as long as possible rather than being at the back, so that will be my strategy to avoid this “bug.”
In a Tiny race, if you’re at the back, the race is over. It’s a balls-out smash fest. If you find yourself at the back you’ve already lost (pretty much).
1 Like
It is different to be at the back of a tightly defined group and be at the back of a stretched-out group. Being at the back of a tight shallow group shouldn’t be a problem, but now it is. This issue occurs when there is a buffer between you and the riders in front, which is meant to absorb speed changes. When you absorb the speed changes, you speed up and slow down or just freewheel. In both cases:
- draft savings exceeds a certain threshold
- your speeds exceeds the speed of the bike in front of you (maybe)
- power drops below your last 10 sec. average power
And you are auto-braked
we will have to agree to disagree.
You say “bug” I say “feature”
If there was such a thing as a 6 minute crit IRL and if you were at the back in the first 30 seconds it would be game over. The front will be max 6 minute effort and unless you are significantly stronger you will never get there. You can’r draft your way there.
6 Likes
Being a heavy rider and going downhill, you should be.
Being at the back can be different things/situations (see post above).
Exactly. This was a PD4 Tiny Race a couple of weeks ago. Near the start I slipped back to about 2/3 of the way back, but managed to pull it back.
Wouldn’t want to fall back any further than this…
Looking at the video again, I was in the draft almost the whole time and had no red numbers at all. No churning on the front. No difficulty staying off the front 
PD4 seems to working fine from my point of view. 
Except it didn’t make me win!
Well raced!
As far as I understand, we don’t get red numbers in all the situations where we are auto-braked. I have only seen it in high-draft to low-draft situations at the front. It would be nice to see it every time to learn how to ride more efficiently.
I wonder if there have been any tweaks to PD4 lately? Maybe it has changed and my experiences are stale.
1 Like
I can make red number show without going to low draft.
Sprint into the back of the pack and stop pedalling suddenly and you get red numbers while still in full draft in the middle of the pack.
1 Like
I’m just referring to:
Question, why was reducing the draft benefit of a user advancing through the field never considered?
Another question, have you detailed the current criteria for being autobraked? Without red numbers and without it explained that it’s leaving it to people to guess when/why/how they’re being dropped from the field.
When will flashing red numbers be implemented outside of races? And for all circumstances where a user is being braked? Hard to get to know PD4 when how it’s working is hidden.
Edit: thanks Gerrie for moving my post from where it was appropriate to where it’s now redundant
I feel like I’m talking to myself here :-), but I really think some improvements could be made.
I raced the STAGE 1: COBBLE CRUSHER - R.G.V today and it ended up being an iTT for most:
No rest is to be found anywhere.
I was behind the front after the aqueduct by ca. 10-15m. Usually, the huge draft benefit from the pack makes it possible to get back on the descent. I got into the situation I described above where I got stuck behind a rider on my way to the front pack. It felt like the sticky draft, but much worse. I finally got back to the front and iTT’ed in. No one tried to go off the front. I guess no one had anything extra to give when the whole race felt like an iTT (no rest).
Chasing Tour 2023 opted in to PD4 for the series, next race this Sunday on Lutece Express (so, mostly flat - but now…perhaps breakaways?). Most of the time slots have 100+ riders now mass start - so widely varying power outputs. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
If I understand correctly, this would have required some power variation on your part as one of the auto-brake inputs. Without seeing some video of it with the Zwift HUD showing power it is hard to say why this happened, but if the description of auto-brake conditions is correct and you just kept steady non-zero power while descending I don’t think PD4 would have done a single thing different vs PD3
As a lightweight, an ITT during races or fast group rides has always being the case for me. Welcome to my world.
2 Likes
Is the PD 4, discusse in this thread, included in the recent game update and is it enabled for all kind of rides?
Changelog from latest game release:
- Improved experience when riding in a pack with new pack dynamics
It certainly feels different, so I assume it is because of PD4/DD.
ITT’ing in a mass start race is no fun at all. Neither for you nor me.
EDIT: If we can get red numbers or something similar all the time we are auto-braked, it will be much more obvious when PD4 is behaving strangely and unexpectedly and we will be able to give more nuanced feedback.
One of the previous posts from David said the threshold was at a 3% reduction from your last 10s power. This is impossible to not trigger during a race. I haven’t seen any more recent comments laying out what sets off the brakes so don’t have anything else to go off of.
In other news if the negative effects seen in Kristian’s comments are from PD4 then we’re not at “just Makuri” for PD4 but maybe everywhere? Just in the zwift weekly races? All events?
zwifthacks indicates the crush the cobbles events are PD4-opt in
Is that race using PD4?