Pace Partners Weekly Update - W/C 4th July

:100: A general problem in the game - it would be really helpful to be able to select an accessible pallette in settings that applied to all the icons, text, etc. for different types of color blindness and users who require high contrast

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What about random numbers between 50 and 75 for female pace partners and 65 - 100 kg for male pace partners?

The wattage should be the controlling factor. Riding a flat route, the W/kg is meaningless.

Routes aren’t flat and I’m pretty sure, a 100 kg rider has a different value for aerodynamics than a 50 kg rider with the same watts.

I don’t think there’s one value that works well.

In the future we’ll be showing average power (as wkg) and average speed.

I’ll also have them all at the same height and weight, likely to be 75kg and 175cm.

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Hi James, looks like these have been scheduled on RGV. Might be worth editing OP so people aren’t checking for the wrong thing - i was searching ZP for races on Casse-Pattes and nothing showed

Thank you. These aren’t technicslly my events and the route changed between my post and when they were designed.

Edited OP

Surely W/kg is the only way this can be done!?

When Coco is putting out 163W, a 50kg rider will be doing 125W while I’ll be pushing 260!

Pure Watts mean nothing.

"Aerodynamics are the single largest resistance force once you reach speeds of 10 mph. Even out of shape beginner cyclists will average 12 mph (19 kph) or more on flat terrain. " (pedalchile.com; random search…)

Not being an expert in aerodynamics or Zwift’s implementation of it, one’s speed on flat roads, is mainly controlled by one’s power. One’s weight is relevant for the rolling resistance - but is much smaller than drag at the speeds we Zwifters “ride”.

The relevant - but missing - information is the Drag Coefficient (Cd), of which we (I…) know nothing about in Zwift, though it would be (?) prudent to assume it is somewhat related to one’s weight (the higher the weight, the “bigger” the person is…) - again, the relation is unknown (in Zwift).

Assuming (other information not withstanding) Zwift’s drag coefficient is fixed, one must than conclude only absolute power is relevant on a flat roads.

(open to other views/explanations emoji here…)

@James_Zwift I think the development of the pace partners along with your interaction and communications is great.

My feedback is I would like to see a partner between Coco and Charlie. Something to provide an option to all those Coco riders, it does appear quite a jump up from Coco to Charlie. However having ridden with both the average speed is pretty similar (due to the large group with Coco). The large group size for me gets a bit routine (trying to find a better word than boring) in contrast I find the smaller group size more engaging.

Cheers,
Andy.

2 Likes

I think the gap between Coco and Charlie is more pronounced due to Coco being a bit lighter. I will probably (not confirmed) be moving all Pace Partners to 75kg (height 1m75).

I will probably (again not definite yet) use the following paces:

1.1 w/kg
1.5 w/kg
1.8 w/kg
2.2 w/kg
2.6 w/kg
3.2 w/kg
3.7 w/kg
4.2 w/kg

(There are more at the lower end based on the fact that the majority ride at those paces)

8 Likes

Depending on how you look at it, maybe not really unbalanced to the low end, if you look at the gaps on percentage bases.
1.1->1.5 = +36%
1.5->1.8 = +20%
1.8->2.2 = +22%
2.2->2.6 = +18%
2.6->3.2 = +23%
3.2->3.7 = +16%
3.7->4.2 = +14%

1 Like

Pace Partner Selection/Menu Screen.
The current PP selection screen shows the actual W/kg that each PP is doing. It would be helpful to also have the target average W/kg of each PP shown. This would give you some idea if the PP is currently climbing, descending or on the flat.
Pacer “name”
Pace X.X W/kg (act. X.XW/kg)

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Yep, we’ll be showing average W/Kg as well as speed.

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Thank you James, that will be really helpful.

Hopefully this does happen, it will make the relative efforts between pace partners more predictable for folks.

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Yep, I think it’ll make for a really good progression system.

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Hey James,

Great, great work on the Pace Partners. I really, really enjoy the changes so far! To name a few;

  • The added PPs, there is now something between Coco and Bowie for days I feel Bowie is too fast for my legs and Coco too slow. I think people think the same on the lower paces with all the added yellow PPs where there was only 1 before, looking at the group sizes when crossing routes with them.

  • The event-led PP (on the Alpe). Looking forward to any other that can get people some badges or challenges (VenTop e.g. or the bigger routes)

  • The change in routes; more hilly ones included (finally got the Four Horseman badge! It was a hassle to check and wait before Coco is back to the start and join just before, hence the idea for longer routes as events led by PPs to hunt badges I understand as others suggested)

  • The Dynamic Pacing I also experience as an improvement. Makes it more realistic and enjoyable when joining a PP group.

I do miss something, not sure if it is already on the radar. But I would love to be able to see in game where the PPs are in the Compamion app on the map. And which pace they are and its route (colored in when selected), so when free riding people can really free ride and plan a bit ahead to catch a PP some where down a route. You can see a nice PP is on the other side of Watopia but knowing its route, where it is and where you are you can plam and meet him somewhere far ahead. Now it is down to luck if you catch a PP to coast with. But usually only possible to plan if you go on the same route, but reversed.

Anyway, again great work on the Pace Partners so far, and I am looking forward to the future. Including the choice between hilly and flat routes for the same pace bots. Hopefully with the PP indicated in the app and map so we can easily switch between hilly and flat PP in one ride.

I think we’re pretty keen to do badge hunts with pace partner support.

We’re looking into doing this in the future. Agree it would be great to see where the Pace Partners were prior to joining the ride (possibly also during?).

4 Likes

So squishing eddy and dorothy together? :frowning:

I enjoy having the choice. It would be a big jump (for me) to go to 1.5.