@Jim_Mattson
The surging is the visual result of players using different versions of the game client. Older versions will position avatars according to the standard pack dynamics.
It’ll be interesting to hear your feedback when event organizers start enabling new pack dynamics in races, with all players are using the current game client.
It will be nice if there was a big popup in the pairing screen notifying people that they are in a OLD version.
Especially for platforms that don’t force the update!
Seriously? Implementing something like this so that minimum version number is enforced is just too advanced for Zwift? Just did one of these and the jumpiness of certain riders was by far the most annoying feature (realized early enough that it was just specific riders and got rid of it by moving to a group with no such riders).
Also, it’s impossible to tell if you are in the draft or not (on a Tron, anyway), as the movements of other riders make you suddenly go from 0 to >5 m behind (and back) without any visual indication. (Nearby riders list not working and getting mixed with non-event riders for the first 2–3 km didn’t exactly help either.)
If this is the future of Zwift, I guess I’d better start to think about moving to a certain three-letter platform exclusively by next winter or something…
I’ve done 5 of the make-up rides so far, but have been riding them at a recovery pace most of the time so I’ve noticed that even when I’m alone I will still have riders going through me. At the start though I have noticed the longer group instead of a more blob-ish one, as well as the riders zigging and zagging across the road. The one ride I went a bit harder on and managed to stay with a small group was pretty nice, we all kind of maintained a more realistic space around us. I’ve also seen my avatar move over to let other riders pass me which is kind of neat.
I did have the riders list disappear in the jungle stage I rode today, even though I could see the other riders on the road and was receiving ride-ons from my followers… as soon as I crossed the finish line it came back and was filled with all the riders around me… dunno if that is related to any of the pack AI changes or not.
That behavior is common, some people have researched it deeper and it appears to be related to net traffic interruptions and how the app manages them. It is not related to the pack dynamics mods.
Probably. Unless you’re involved in testing the app, then I’m not sure how you can say this is the case with any certainty. ZwiftHQ probably doesn’t know the answer…
I can say, I have never seen this happen until I did a TdZ make up ride with the New Pack Dynamics.
I’ve seen that article on zwiftinsider. I think it would make sense if the riders list didn’t re-appear the second I crossed the finish line and the event was over. It’d be quite the coincidence if it was the internet troubles ending at the exact same time.
That is one persons issue and not the fix for some/most others (me included).
Its important that when providing feedback, that all feedback is provided whether we thinks its relevant or not. Who knows, Zwift might have caused a lot of the Riders Missing issues to escalate when they started playing around with drafting late last year when steering got launched - its all relevant, until its proven it isnt (and we arent the ones that can decide that).
Tried this for the first time this week - if I’m at 3.5w/kg chasing back on and a couple of riders come ‘round me at 2.3w/kg (and how that even happens on the flat off the back of a group is another question), I DO NOT want to draft. The group is gone in a flash…
Let’s assume they are really heavy so putting out more raw Watts.
If they are going past you, why would you not want to draft them? You can’t choose not to draft an object in real life.
How do you overtake irl on the flat doing 1w/kg less than another rider?
(note that when I stopped sticking to them I dropped them pdq - but by then the group had gone)
As was said, if they are heavier than you they could just be putting out more raw watts than you. If you weigh 70 kg and are doing 3.5wkg, that would be 245 watts. So, if they weigh 106.5 kg they would also be putting out 245 watts. And because raw wattage is more important on the flats, they should be going at least as fast as you are, even at 1.2wkg less. Add to this that there are two of them, which means there is at least some draft effect going on in their ‘group’ and they would likely be doing faster than you.
Of course, I have no idea what you, or they, weigh, but just wanted to explain how it’s possible to put out less wkg and still go faster than someone else.
Because the full equation involves a lot more than weight and power - size, bike and wheels come intonit. And even then, on exactly the same bikes, two riders of the same size, the lighter rider will roll a little faster.
There’s also a height penalty in Zwift, so if the higher w/kg rider is tall and the other lower w/kg riders are short, they have an additional advantage.
Currently doing my third group ride this week and the experience again is awful. I only have a handful of the 400+ riders visible. About five minutes ago a large number of riders appeared for a few minutes but then they all disappeared.
I’m running the most recent version of the app (I double checked last night) on Apple TV 4K.
Assuming this is the case for any group rides, not just new pack dynamics. There does seem to be a big issue with ghost riders at the moment, particularly on Apple TV, however I don’t think it is related to the pack dynamics. We need to keep this thread as clean and on point as possible, although I know other issues are frustrating.
A new update is due next week. I’m hoping for further pack dynamics improvements (along as my usual long list of things I’ve given up hope of ever seeing). It feels like to be able to give any constructive feedback, the noise (ghost riders, people on old device versions) needs to be cleaned up.
Why not get someone like Eric at Zwift Insider to organise some specific testing with a closed event? That way certain criteria can be applied - latest version etc, and also specific scenarios can be tested. e.g., what does a TTT look like? What happens to big pack pace? Can you slingshot through the pack? Etc
I mentioned it here because this has only started happening since the new pack dynamics were introduced. Having watched GP Lama’s video showing how the dynamics work it’s clear that all three group rides I’ve done have had the new pack dynamics enabled because of how the avatars behave.
I don’t experience any noticeable ghosting when free riding. This only occurs during group rides.
It appears that the previous update that reduced the number of riders on screen doesn’t play nicely with the new pack dynamics.
