New Pack Dynamics [February 2021]

We didn’t change the math behind drafting, but the draft effect should be more realistic because avatar positionings are more accurate now.

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This is really great news. I was afraid there may be some reluctance to work on the pack dynamics now so many people are used to them.

What I would love to see is some slowing around corners based on pack size and a more realistic terminal velocity. This should help with breakaways over the tops of climbs. At the moment if there is a pack behind you there is no hope. Ideally if you push past the front of a pack you should slow as you hit the wind, so that the pack doesn’t just keep accelerating. Can’t wait to test the changes (or watch videos of others test them!).

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In my opinion, nailing the draft and pack dynamics are much more important than new roads (even though I still want that). Having the possibilty of attacks sticking at the end of races if nobody takes responsibility would completely change the racing dynamics👍

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Is tihis only on for specific events or also for freeriding in some situations? Over the past few weeks, I have been noticing my avatar quite often taking an unusual zigzag line when going past others on the sprint segments, where I would have expected just going through the others.

As for the sticky draft, it definitely needs some work as well. For me it seems to work exactly the opposite of what I’d want it to do: when I’m coming from behind and just trying to latch myself on to the last rider, I go past and stay out of the draft until I can manage to wedge in, and on the other hand when I’m approaching and already accelerating to get past someone, I just get stuck to them and lose significant momentum.

@shooj Very cool. Can team event organizers already request this Dynamics Pack for their events or is it too early for this ? Happy to test it out for sure. Cheers,Stephan

Watching a catch up TdZ event and some people are buzzing around the pack very unusually - could this be because they’re not on the latest version of the game? It’s specifically mentioned in the OP so I’m guessing if you’re not up to date it has some funky side effects.

I haven’t updated the app since like January and haven’t gotten any new update since… there is supposedly a mid February update so maybe that will drop sometime next week? Should have the new Colnago in it.

Rode the TdZ Stg8 MakeUp at 545am PST as a warm up for the Chasing Fabian TT (aka The Bloodbath) this morning. I will say it is different but ZwiftHQ still has some work to do, IMHO.

It seemed like the pack in places was more like an outdoor ride with my buddies and we’re talking about what we’re going to do this evening. In other words, not tight enough for a good group draft like we would be if we were racing. Literally at places the group was spread out across the road and without steering (which, of course, was not enabled 'cuz it’s never enabled) you couldn’t position yourself to be in a draft.

My avatar didn’t ride back and forth through the pack at the start or go on the wrong side of the road (yay!) but most of the time managed to foul up the line through corners like a rookie (grrr…). And sometimes when we’d get to the big roundabout, everyone would get squirrely for a second to the point I would almost get motion sick. Really weird.

I gotta ask, did ZwiftHQ actually do testing or are the TdZ MakeUp rides the test? This is an improvement but it doesn’t seem to be as fully realized as it could be.

People on Apple TV/iPhone/Android could be on versions way old. There were a bunch of people the other day shown to be using a version from November.

Yes, they are testing in TDZ makeup.

Wonderful. So if the 47 people who frequent this forum would go do a TdZ MakeUp ride and post feedback maybe we can get this straightened out. Seems a little weird to be spending resources on Pack Dynamics when there some pretty glaring issues in the basic app that may need to get resolved by moving the entire thing to another software platform. I’m not a software person nor do I have any insight into how Zwift is staging the next level but this is a little like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, IMHO…

I’d say don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. I would rather zwift throw out MVP, get our feedback and interate, rather than keep it in house for 12 months, completely miss the point and then decide not to release anything.

Pack dynamics is a big one that if they get it right can massively improve the experience.

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Just posted this: Zwift Tests “New AI” Pack Dynamics | Zwift Insider

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I did a TdZ make-up ride today and found that we were thrown more sideways. I asked in the chat if someone could notice a difference, but the only reply I got was someone got dropped as usual (no difference) :slight_smile: But I experienced something different. Imagined or not. If I came from the back and wanted to find a back, the rider in front of me would move to the side and I had to go for the next rider in front. I also noticed that there often opened a gap between the first riders in the group and the rest. I also think that it was easier to fall off the back of the field and harder to get back, but that could be just me having a bad day :slight_smile: I also noticed that the group did not hold together as good as I’m used to. That could be because of the increased sideways movement and harder to draft. I also noticed that if I had a position at the left or right of the field, I could hold that position longer than before, so less movement. Previously I would have been pushed into the center of the field after a while. I can confirm that there was less “churn” and you had to do a conscious decision to go to the front, not just suddenly being at the front by accident.

Yes, we’d be glad to add this to your rides. Hit up the events team as you usually do and we can add this to rides in the next couple of weeks.

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Right now this is only enabled in specific events. Freeride, including riding with Pace Partners, hasn’t been changed.

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Hey Mark,

We’ve been testing this for several months and making changes/mods daily. The TdZ make-up stages represent the biggest rollout/test event we’ve staged thus far.

This forum’s feedback is super helpful to our engineers to hear what your experience was like. We’re not done, this is just a step in the process and we’re including the community in this testing and rollout.

Mark

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I really appreciate the openness from Zwift and the willingness to get feedback on new features/changes from the community. Way to go!

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Awesome !! Thanks…Have a great weekend Mark. Cheers , Stephan

You have no idea how pleased I am to hear this. Thank you very much.

I’m really, REALLY hoping this will bleed over into some of the other issues brought up on the forum. Zwift is an important part of my and many other’s fitness program and the frustrations can make it difficult to live with at times.

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