I think they just run normal CE with two events, one high and one low to get the extra pens. I don’t remember being prevented from entering the low end category races in the past but it’s out of my timezone so if zhq have cut them a break since then that’s cool.
Looks like they have proper custom categories because I can’t join the middle-end C category despite being in C according to CE in this event:
glad to hear that, that’s cool. i remember they used to have to do all of that manually. i do have a broader point though, which is that most series who do use or want to use custom categories have to do it manually, which means doing it like wtrl with race passes, filtering results after the event, offsite signups etc. and, i am not in a hurry to forget, staff being unhappy with organisers on occasion when they do want to request something out of the ordinary. it’s a lot of extra stuff to deal with and a slow tedious process, it strikes me as something that really doesnt have to be
I don’t understand how their cats work. There appears to be a gap between D, which only goes up to 2.2wkg, and C, which starts at 2.7wkg? and so on, with gaps.
There are two events, one for “middle end” and one for “mad end”. So what you’re looking at is the middle end event that is the lower portion of each category. The mad end is the upper part of each category. This is because they have more than 5 categories for the race. Here’s a mad-end one:
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My name is mentioned to many times…but i can confirm TFC is using Custom Limits as well. But less complex than we have at VirtuSlo.
My view for using Non-standard Category Limits is to avoid riders that are Sandbagging in B, C, D.
We also use 5 Pens to have more competitive Pens and more or less everyone can win (Light or Heavy Riders) because we use Compound Score to move riders up if there 5min Watts are to high.
I have been open to share and help anyone…the last Series that used Split-Cats was DRS Hors Categorie.
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I think a workaround that’s not used too much are the race formats where you see all categories and same time starts. If you look at the results in ZwiftPower, but sort the results by time, it looks like it was a more interesting race than if all the cats had been invisible to one another – using example event ID# 4288805
ht tps://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=4288805
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Some of the best riders can beat riders zwift cat up. I don’t think in between cat can eliminate sandbagging.
Silva in D can win C races. There are a few great sprinters and drafters in C that can win B races.
Sandbagging isn’t an issue of riders sandbagging. Sandbagging is a systematic issue of a static arbitrary line.
you hope
I think the fact will remain, that you’re still stuck with 4 cats, spread out by ability, with large differences between who wins each cat versus who comes in last in the cat.
That was a common race format until a few years ago - I feel like it may have been the only one, but could be misremembering. Every race was essentially about holding on to the lead group as long as you could, then solo TT to the finish. The B race, and sometimes even the C race, was typically won by whoever could keep up with the A’s until the end.
Unless you were a strong a rider you could never try anything different as you couldn’t possibly push off the front, and it was rare to even have someone to sprint against at the finish.
Though I look at the results of one of these race types (another I just looked at is event ID# 4295275 - “British Cycling Race Series”), and note that all through the entre roster of A thru Ds, nobody looks like they were completely shelled and riding way off the back, until you maybe get to the last few out of a 70-contestant field.
I think it may though, to your point, appeal to different personalities or priorities. Those looking for a fun race, vs those looking to win. These same-start/all-cat races look fun, but the experience, especially to a B, C, or D ‘winner’ isn’t as satisfying because they can see other riders finishing before them.
Just a couple snips of one of these races from the top vs bottom ends
I was in this race as a D cat. I think the mass Cat starts are fun and definitely give a different feel to the race as I can mix it with some Cs along with other strong D’s so it’s better than if I just enter a C race and get my ass kicked. But as you say it’s definitely a different experience to racing at the pointy end of a race with only your peers and crossing the finish line first or sprinting in the leading group - the stakes feel higher.
I’m happy participating in both types of race, both have pros and cons.
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Unfortunately IMO, races with this structure are few and far between and for the most part, have been relegated to Mountain/Climbing races. I see @DejanPresen that the VirtuSlo Endurance 50k race, combines split cats with same starts and seeing all categories – trifecta for the win!
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One question, in one of these types of races, is there any way to view which cat other riders signed up for while you’re in the race?
I’m not sure if you can access the event signup pen details while you’re in the race, but on the right hand side in the zwifters nearby bit everyone has their Cat displayed beside their name:
Screenshot taken from Norwegian Watts youtube who actually videoed this exact race.
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If you don’t wish to use Sauce for Zwift you can use the Live tab on ZwiftPower to watch, slightly delayed, how riders around you are doing. This is a screenshot at the finish but it gives details throughout the race and you can see time gaps and where you stand within your category.
Of course only applies to ZwiftPower riders.
