Also if you’re a light rider getting dropped on descents is a real possibility, particularly with the new drafting, At least a lower TD increases the resistance when going downhill which gives you a better chance to hang on. And, if the heavier riders are also using low TD, then game theory pretty much forces you to ride with a low TD, as otherwise you would be at a double (or triple) disadvantage.
I’m on the lighter side (67kg/148lbs) and I’ve not experienced much of getting dropped on descents but I know it’s a thing.
Lowering TD also negates your Kickr Climb, if you have one, but I think there’s a workaround for that.
The notion that TD allows you to use different gearing is secondary to the intent. My assertion is that it’s intended to mitigate hills and make the field more accessible to everyone, thus “trainer difficulty”. If it were intended to allow wider gearing, it would be called something else.
Do you remember where you saw the workaround for the Kickr Climb? I got one a few months ago and I’ve been riding at TD 100% ever since. My lowest gear is 39-28 and I’d like to lower the TD for steeper climbs to simulate easier gearing, but don’t want to lose the effect of the Climb.
Also, I did my first few Zwift races on rollers with a crank power meter (TD 0%). It’s difficult because you have to consciously adjust your pace for any gradient changes and it’s tough to get it right. Even for a 1-2% speed bump, it’s easy to overdo it and go off the front or undershoot it and get dropped.
Also, I did my first few Zwift races on rollers with a crank power meter (TD 0%). It’s difficult because you have to consciously adjust your pace for any gradient changes and it’s tough to get it right. Even for a 1-2% speed bump, it’s easy to overdo it and go off the front or undershoot it and get dropped.
pretty much the only reason i have my TD at 15% or so. 2% in, for example yorkshire, doesn’t look any different to -2%. so i personally recommend everyone run at least a little bit of TD for that reason, otherwise it doesn’t really matter. you’ll wear through less chains and cassettes if you’re not changing gear much so that’s cool
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the #1 difference is on a dumb trainer you get to choose when and where you want to increase the resistance/effort, and you can do so gradually under your full control.
those on smart trainers @ 50-100% don’t have a choice, the game forces it upon them and the sudden changes in resistance can be quite jarring (even if you know the route well and change gear in advance!), and we all know what sudden spikes do to the legs compared to a steadily paced TT effort :3
so even though the total average watts required would in theory be the same, there’s a big difference in how it feels in the legs when you don’t have as much control over resistance/cadence.
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It was suggested elsewhere in the forums. Try this
I haven’t tried it but there’s some logic to it. Good luck.
Yes and not so much.
On a free ride, I can pedal whatever force I want.
In a group, I have to mirror the timing and intensity of the other riders.
I don’t get any feedback from the trainer.
I know the course and I watch the w/kg of the other riders and when I see a jump, I have to match it.
I don’t decide when to do so.
I can decide to not increase but I am dropped.
The only advantage that I can see is I can apply more power on a down hill.
I haven’t tried a reactive trainer yet so I may be missing the point.
well, you’re spot on. the reason i like to have 15% TD is because it tells you all of that without you having to watch the gradient % for small rises or everyone else’s nametag on the sidebar like a hawk, it’s just enough that you can feel it through your legs.
i raced for my first year on zwift with a £60 magnetic trainer and a regular power meter myself so I know how it is. i wouldn’t like to have tried putting 1000+ watts through it either
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I have been using Zwift for two years and since the beginning I have used 100% TD as new to cycling I wanted to simulate as best as possible riding outside. As a light CAT A rider the issue using 100% TD when racing is not on the flats or the hills it’s the descents I have been dropped frequently because basically I don’t have much resistance to push against on a steep descent which would be negated by using a lower TD. I prefer the resistance using 100% TD but am a bit sick of getting dropped on descents and if I don’t get dropped don’t get much of a recovery 
. If I join C or B pace partners my HR is highest on descents which is crazy this should be recovery sections 
. I have a 48/35 10-36 on my Tarmac which is what I set my Wahoo Kickr bike to though outside I have never used lower than 28th cog 
. I hoped one day Zwift would impose a set TD for racing whether it be 25, 50, 75 or 100% so everyone was using the same settings. I appreciate that everyone could be using different chainrings and cassettes but if you are purchasing a bike or these parts I’m sure you would want to choose the best for outside riding and also for indoors if you frequently Zwift. I have reached the point on Zwift either I keep TD at 100% which I prefer but as a result get dropped on descents or choosing a lower TD which I don’t like but will probably be able to hang on while descending 
.
Or Zwift could do something like FulGaz where you can set the values for uphills and downhills separately. That way you can have it set at 100% for the climbs and then choose a lower value for the descents to stop you from spinning out.
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That is why you can ride at 100% TD that may be equivalent to 50%TD with a 53/39 11-25. If you use a 53 11 you will have less change to spin out on the downhills at 100%TD
A team member suggested changing on the fly during a race which is doable using an IPad but no chance with ATV menus are too clumsy to navigate with the remote 
. I remember racing on Sand and Sequoias a message appeared on the group chat “it’s pretty obvious who is using 100% TD” basically I was being ridiculed for setting Zwift the same as IRL. There are hundreds of posts that correctly state that watts are watts regardless but there is no way anyone can say having a low or lower TD for racing isn’t an advantage. Zwift should lock out TD during a race so all competitors are the same. What chance would I have staying with a pack averaging 20kgs heavier than myself on a steep descent them on 0% TD myself on 100%. I could lower to 0% however IRL cycling would suffer as a result with lack of muscle build up and the varying of cadence using 100 TD brings. Zwift are trialing CAT enforcement I think it’s about time they locked out TD slider for racing with organiser’s able to select between 50 - 100%.
Then every rider should also use the same gearing I suggest 53/39 11-25.
You are welcome to try a race at 0%TD you will find that you run out of gears on the climbs and won’t be able to keep up.
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Yep understand that Gerrie but lowering TD is advantageous for racing forgetting about the cassette used take for example going up a short punchy climb which then starts directly onto a descent the momentum lost changing from high to low gears is costly many a pack have I lost touch with due to this scenario. I have had fellow riders suggest get to KOM in front of the pack if possible this actually is worse because pack will zoom past with no chance to latch on. I’m sure Zwift has spent plenty of dollars creating worlds that have hills TD at 0% basically turns everything flat sure there would be plenty of complaints if all worlds were pan flat surely it’s better to feel what gradients you are riding on. I understand some people are limited by chainring and cassettes however what do they do IRL if they stay in a flat area then move to a hilly one stop cycling or change to a different cassette .
The whole TD discussion over and over
With 0% TD you don’t feel the hills but you go slower if you don’t change gears. On 0% TD you have to cage gears in the opposite direction as you would IRL. So going up a 7% climb at 0% TD you have to go to your 48 10 if you want to keep up with the pack.
It is actually harder if you don’t feel the grade change.
It’s definitely harder if you don’t fell the grade change. I rode my base season mostly with Brevet (not racing at all) on 0% and my lag in picking up my cadence on the hills left me chasing on most times. In the end I put a little bit of TD back on to make this go away without need to grind and change gear on what was by definition lots of z2 spinning.
I do ride a campy group of 53/39 11/25 on Zwift vs a 12/32 (iirc) in real life. That 25 is not enough on a 17% gradient
I would never set TD at 0% I was only making a point that Zwifter’s can set to this value during a race for example EPIC KOM descent changing to 0% during a race would be an advantage. The lowest cassette I have used on Zwift was a 50-34 10-28 on 100% TD I would have thought you guys can confirm wouldn’t 50% TD be sufficient to be the lowest setting to allow for varying cassettes?
That is actually the official E-sport rules.
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Yes I’m on about 25%, to be honest that’s for the point made about not using the small ring, more the hassle than the tiny loss of power/time (the micro-rest probably counters that anyway). I use most of the rear cog in that, most of it in the middle gears (though I have no fear of a little cross chaining either). I’m also light (62.5), but the 53/11 is plenty to push against there going downhill.
To answer the original question, I do all my training on Zwift as well as my limited Zwift racing (less limited this time of year). I never vary between racing and training. I don’t think it’s ‘wrong’ to, I just don’t.
From a design perspective I would have guessed that TD along with using the controllable to vary resistance is all client-side code with only the resulting power being sent to the server, so I wonder if this rule (and TD limiting in general) can actually be verified live.