I don’t disagree with anything you say, but those of us who went through this process a long time ago, it’s easy to forget quite how unpleasant it is to try your best and be rewarded with a disqualification, even without necessarily placing highly. It’s designed to be an engaging system, that’s the whole point, so of course people are going to be emotionally invested in the results.
Sure, after a while, you can learn to shrug and say well, it’s just zwift, we expect it to be crap. But it can take a little while to learn that lesson.
It’s quite an eye-opener as to how zwift views the racing community, that it persists with this approach for so long.
Hi James,
Thanks for your continued communication. Now that the dust has settled on this first run of the event and problems have been exposed, can we fix those that have yet to be corrected so that the next round goes more smoothly and we don’t create more B_Wallsy’s?
It would be great if Zwift could do the following for the remainder of this series:
Require all participants to register on Zwiftpower regardless of Cat;
Set up E Cat and recommend it to all new racers as the appropriate cat for them to use;
Clearly state in the event description that DQs will result if riders select the wrong Cat (so if you have any doubt go with E);
Fix errors in event description about Zwiftpower requiring heart monitors and smart trainers.
Finally it would be the cherry on top if a clear marker could be added to indicate the finish line — but I recognize I’m may be getting greedy and self-interested with this last request.
my first ever race, 2 years ago, was a wkg too, it’s the only DQ i’ve ever had. after that, I remember finishing last behind a 75 year old guy in my first C race. I was even using a wheel on smart trainer at the time that was overreading by about 20% too. can’t sweat the small stuff though
How does anyone ever know that you did not know your FTP before your first race? I am not saying you did this, but tell us how Zwift would know that other than taking your word for it. This is exactly why Zwift SHOULD NOT ALLOW people racing without completing a proper FTP test. Sure, someone who wants to sandbag will still sandbag in the FTP test, but people who honestly do not know their FTP would have an idea about which pen to join at least.
Doesn’t Zwift set your FTP based on your best 20 mins automatically even if you don’t ever do an explicit test? But anyway, E category for uncategorized racers will certainly solve this (even if it probably won’t deliver a particularly good race experience for those in that category).
Rather than calling for an FTP test, new racers could be required to join an A or B race to give them the opportunity to determine where they should be categorized. I’ve gotten several of my IRL racer friends to start Zwifting and if their first race was a C or D field they would’ve shattered the race for riders who belong in that category because they’re solid A and B riders. In truth, all racers should be on Zwiftpower and anybody joining any race below A cat should have some kind of history. Especially in the big Zwift races.
The question you need to ask: Do we want to affect the experience for an entire field of C or D riders so ONE rider can get correctly categorized? Seems to me, the group should have priority over a single individual.
Does it really matter if there’s a strong rider at the front of the race sometimes? If there were always a bunch of them every time then I’d agree it would be unsatisfactory but really I don’t think it matters when it happens occasionally.
The problem with the current system isn’t that you sometimes get a strong rider at the front. It’s that there is no procedure to correct this so it happens pretty much every time.
I just want to take a sec and thank the community here. Yes, I was upset that the results being dropped felt punitive. After reading the shared comradery in this forum I’m taking it on the chin and did the only thing I know to make me feel better. Got back on the bike and tried my hand at a ‘C’ group ride. I have a lot to learn still.
Thanks to Lebasi for the kind words and everyone else. Hope you all have good rides this weekend.
Harsh for them but it’s also harsh on the other 95% of riders in the race that suffer because of it. Which is worse?
Zwift needs a better system to classify new riders. We have autocat from wtrl that won’t place a rider without enough data. I hope Zwift is working on something similar or forces you to pen e maybe as to not effect the rest of the race where your race history is not sufficient to place in a category.
You don’t have to do a FTP test just one 20min effort. Zwift keep track of a rider’s ftp and therefore should be able to put that rider in the correct category.
Many people do workouts and therefore need a FTP if they can do a workout at set FTP then they should race in that ftp/weight category.
If the ftp is to low then it will be recalculated after the race an training and races will use the new FTP.
I found the FTP calculated from past rides by both xert and intervals.icu to be very accurate, compared to FTP tests and better than the ZP one. Admittedly I have quite a long history on Strava including lots of races which probably makes finding an accurate FTP easier, but using similar methods should still be able to provide a good ballpark firgure from a few workouts or harder group rides.
Yes I agree now I was responding to the point about “new riders” still being a problem if cat enforcement was in place. I’m sure the current sandbaggers are repeat offenders not just clueless newbies.
B, I gotta say that looking at the results initially, I was crabby about both your and the guy that won’s power numbers. Then I looked at your profile pages, and found that this was your first race, and it was his first event on ZP at all. THEN, after the DQs went through, I was like, “well, sorry guys, that kinda sucks, but the rules are the rules.”
BUT THEN, I find this thread. I had missed the text that said C & D were “open”, so I went into all of this expecting effectively a “normal” situation with enforcement.
Now after reading all this, seeing what the initial “rules” were, and that you legit didn’t know, now I really feel bad. I’d almost rather kept my P15 than this retroactive hatchet job :-/
Hi @B_Wallsy, I’m right behind you on this because like you, I started racing in D, and I only learned I should have been in C when I started reading sites like ZwiftInsider. I’m really sorry you were disappointed with your first Zwift race experience but do stick with it - it’s great fun when you get into it.
@James_Zwift I see you’re looking into the event descriptions. Thank you; I think that’s a positive step. As well as the point @Lebasi_Lashley pointed out at the start of this thread, the description says:
The “more info here” line doesn’t actually have a link, because it’s been copied and pasted from other events like the Giant Crit Crushers, which had exactly the same problems as this one.
Also, it’s not right to say “newbies should probably start out with group D or C.” That’s what I did as a Zwift newbie, because I didn’t understand the w/kg numbers.
Newbies should actually be encouraged to calculate their category by dividing their FTP by their weight in kilos, and then ride the correct category.
The description also says:
I know Zwift likes to use enthusiastic language but ZwiftPower doesn’t actually level the playing field, it just eliminates people who were competing on the wrong playing field.
A better way of saying it could be “Because ZwiftPower only gives points to people riding in the correct category, make sure you’ve selected the right one for your w/kg” (With another link to the page with more info).
I hope this helps; I hate seeing people have bad first experiences in Zwift racing and being put off.
