Compared to the"wild west days" of 3-4 years ago when everyone was on ZP trainers, it seemed like social pressure and Zwift power were getting people to be more inclined to enter the appropriate cats.
I’m not sure if it’s worse, are we complaining more because of Zwift power changes, is it more new riders that had not seen the prior social policing or is it old players feeling emboldened?
A 62 y/o holding 6 w/kg for 30 min may not realize what’s up.
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Or you make the mistake of trying to stay with them thinking they are actually C’s and then blow up, but I digress. Amazes me and I’m nearly positive it would be simple to just make it impossible for them to sign up in a lower Cat. Somebody will come up with a more level/better mouse trap and people will leave. I’d get ahead of the curve and get my arms around this if I were Zwift. But alas, I’m not.
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To revisit this, and maybe explain my frustration a little more. Today I entered the 3R endurance race, and was completely crushed in the B group. Peeked to see how I would have stacked up with the C’s and I discovered that the 3rd place guy is doing whatever he wants.
ZwiftPower has him/her as a C.
His top 95% efforts are
3.73
3.73
3.71
Average of 3.72
His name is Shigera Maehara, and he’s not even listed as “almost B”.
Explain again why I was bumped to B for being 3.21?
I will check later but you can check his weight it can be that he doesn’t exceed the raw power requirements yo upgrade.
Yup, 53kg and watts under 200.
Shigeru is racing under 200 watts and can be beaten as c class rider…
But isn’t w/kg , w/kg? does the math change? Not saying I know the answer, just asking.
I don’t understand the issues here.
Are people really afraid to be dropped if they upgrade to a higher cat?
I’m officially still a cat-d rider (ZP says min cat is D), however I recntly won a race, and I’m on the brink of being a C. So I decided for myself to see how it is to race in C. Jumped in a crit city race, came 19th, and only 30s slower that a top 10 finish. This is for my first cat-C race.
Last weekend I also did the Haute Route in C-cat and although hard, I didn’t finish last, far from it. I probably did my best riding since I’ve started Zwifting, and ran a 3min pb up AdZ after 3 days of hard riding. Yes I’m not fast (1:18 is not a fast time), but compared to the 1:21 from beginning of this year and a few weeks ago, that’s massive.
Of course it’s nice to be able to stay with a front group and be able to win, but what do you actually win? Nothing really. You can boast that you won a virtual race by beating riders that are actually slower than you. Well: GREAT JOB mate 
(or maam).
I don’t think that when you’re on the brink of progressing to the next cat, you’ll come plum last every race in the higher cat. You might not be able to win, but find a group that you can ride with, and try to win the sprint in that group. There’s always something to be proud of, even if it’s only your own progression.
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That’s a great attitude.
I think there is a mindset progression that all Zwifters go thru.
- You start Zwifting and it’s neat
2.Being a cyclist, you decide it’s fun to go fast. - It’s more fun to try to go faster than the other guy because it motivates us to work harder.
- We question if the game performance matches IRL.
- take steps to improve accuracy
(Increased expense). - Develop a sense of fair play and realistic expectations and enter correct cat.
The people who zwifted before me had to put up with me and my wheel on ZP trainer.
We have a lot of newish Zwifters that just have to go through the process.
Some people never go through all the steps but most do.
The social pressure of the racing forums was generally the catalyst to promote this.
I’m not sure the off line politically correct process currently employed will be as effective.
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From what I gather or think I’ve read, being near the bottom of a cat often means riding solo, so riders would prefer dropping a cat but being able to ride in the thick of the group.
To be truly useful for recovery rides, there would need to be more pace partners without such a big gap between them (I say this as a “higher” Cat C racer who has won 1 crit race, podiumed a few other times and managed only 23rd in a race last week).
I find B way too much and can’t hang with it for long, especially when the group starts going up hill, C is fine for banging out a few quick kms or as part of a warm up, but way too much for a recovery ride, and D is way too slow for even a meaningful recovery.
Something in between C and D would be perfect for that.
Not saying that is something Zwift should do, just saying there are good reasons why the Pace Partners don’t fulfill that role.
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If I am going to enter a race, I want it to be fun, and riding solo in a race is not fun. I mentioned in my post above, finishing 23rd in my last Crit Race, where I am usually top 10 in Cat C … various reasons for it. Pushed hard on my commute the day before and probably didn’t warm up sufficiently, as I was able to stick with the lead group for their last couple of laps when they lapped me.
From the end of lap 3 (when I was dropped from that front group) to the beginning of lap 8 (when they came past a lap ahead) I didn’t see another soul … the lead group headed off into the distance, the group behind me never got any closer than 15-16 seconds back. Effectively time-trialling 4 laps of Crit City is not fun, so going up a category, getting constantly dropped and having to ride solo is a huge disincentive for people like me who don’t have the time to be entering race after race after race, and use them as a fun diversion.
I’ll be honest, if I ever improve to the point that I get promoted I will have to assess whether it is still fun enough to race (and it isn’t in my nature just to hold back and make sure I stay down … I am the sort of guy who tells his wife he is just going for an easy cruise around Watopia immediately before going full gas for an hour just because the route I picked had an achievable 30 day PR showing).
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The Crits are somewhat unique because all the groups do not start together so dropped riders may ride alone.
The road races tend to be mass start do if you get dropped by the lead group, you can ride with the 2nd or 3rd group regardless of their cat.
Perhaps, when one first moves up, a mass start race may be a better choice.
I’m going to stick my neck out a bit and say that road racing is… weird. I say that as a lifelong foot/trail runner with little-to-no cycling race experience. Just like how there’s no crying in baseball, there’s no drafting in running. I’m still getting used to the mindset that you HAVE to draft in a road cycling race. That only makes sense to me if you’re in the lead peloton. Otherwise it seems like you’re cheating yourself out of a workout in the name of “tactics”. Like… you want to train and workout, but want to do the least amount of work possible in the process.
I’m barely in the A cat. That means I end up riding alone a lot. I did a race today and had a typical finish… Last in A (next to last this time) and middle of B (would have been 9th of 15… WTH?!?). I guess I see what people mean in that riding alone isn’t fun, but I still feel like I’m part of a race. Other riders (usually B and C) are never that far away.
Lately I’ve been wondering why there aren’t more racers with me in the bottom of A (or whatever cat you choose). Although I get blown away by 95% or more of A riders, it’s hard to believe I’m so alone at my performance level.
My assumption is that I will improve over time if I’m not drafting so much. The pattern of “last in A and middle of B” has been going on for awhile for me. I think I’ve plateaued.
Zwift - as it stands - seems to magnify the mentality/dynamic/tactic/weirdness. But… it’s just a training platform. I’ll be happy if the training translates into respectable finishes in local/IRL races.
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Mike, that’s a interesting point. I wonder what the w/kg distribution is within each Cat, I think it would be skewed towards the upper limit, rather than an even spread across the range. Maybe it’s unconscious bias and that’s what I am looking to see but I tend to notice most of the field seems to be upper Cat riders (maybe just the races I have done). Being cynical here I wonder how many kgs I would have to put back on to end up back in the upper limit of the next Cat down, I reckon it’s only a couple 
Though I would see how my current weight (79kg) and power (280) relates to the CAT limits to find out how much I need to improve (power) or lose (weight) to get towards the top of my CAT (B).
So roughly I can either make a 20% improvement in my power or lose 11kgs in weight or some combination in between. Either is going to take some effort and not that a 14% weight loss would be healthy or would even happen.
Alternatively if I was to gain 5kg this would get me to the top of the next CAT down. I can see the appeal for those wanting to stay competitive and take the path of less resistance, simply put on a few kg (real or imaginary). I am not advocating this approach in any way just commenting on it.
Being just over the CAT limit does feel like a tough position to be in.
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That is very true, the thing is people sandbag and ride a cat down because they don’t want to be last. BUT the more people do that the smaller the back group gets.
If Zwift would put everyone in the correct Cat you will see a better distribution.
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The question of “is drafting on Zwift cheating our workouts” seems to be a matter of context.
I could certainly define some power goals and go try to hit them but my strongest efforts have been when I decide to stay with a group regardless of how much I blow up.
The unpredictability of the other guy’s surges are an added twist.
We had warmer weather last week and comparing IRL to Zwift, I see I’m more willing to push myself to absolute failure when I don’t have to walk/limp home or watch out for cars.