“Science must begin with myths, and with criticism of myths.” also Karl Popper
“No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude.” Karl Popper
“There was a large hole in my glove. I didn’t like that at all. The gloves were made of excellent leather and lined with fur. I would have liked them to remain intact.” Paul K Feyerabend
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****Update
Since I started this thread, figured I’d update on the new ZRS.
The old ZRS had me around a 420 score. With the update, I shifted down to around 310.
What a difference.
I’m competitive again, but not dominating unfairly and getting in a great ride.
I’d love to say my post changed the system lol, but I know better. But the moral here is if enough people start speaking up, change can happen.
Thanks for listening Zwift. You almost lost me. But I’m happy to still be here.
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My racing score went from 286 to 500+, and now to 414 with the recent change. I weigh 53.1 kg. I’m 57 years old and have had both my knees replaced within the last year. The 286 score that I had before the update was accurate for me. Taking me from D/286 to C/414 is ridiculous. It’s not just the heavier riders. Zwift needs to get this figured out. If it is not fun, people will drop their subscriptions. If they won’t fix this, I’ll be dropping mine.
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My suspicion is that the problem with your power numbers that you talked about here on the forum recently has not been corrected.
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Not sure if this is the best place to drop this suggestion but it seems the most relevant thread…
I’m sure I’m not the only person to suggest this, but I wonder if Zwift should add specific tags to races, i.e., Sprint, Climb, Enduro, and All-rounder?
That way, users can build a score in a particular race style. You could be a Cat C climber but a Cat B sprinter. Also, it’s a way of bringing weight into the equation without it being the main focus, and it will encourage people to find/train to their riding style.
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I used to be mid c last year, and went in an d race where most riders had above 3.5 ftp. I’d call them b racers. Indie velo works somewhat better
I was a mid C racer and now I am in D races with many of the racers having what would have been b power numbers. And in the old system I was bounced out of D races aright away, after barely putting in C power. But in the C races I was doing, many riders had mid to high B power. Maybe the race was their 1st and in subsequent races they couldnt do C. But every C race I was in had a high percentage of people with B power
In the old system, I once raced a C race where a 120kg guy attacked off the front at the start of the race and soloed the whole race in front of a group of 10 guys which I was in. I’m big for a cyclist at 80kg. I sat in mostly but did pull my share. I was DQed trying to catch him as was half of the chase, he stayed away and was under the wkg limit. Talk about unfair!
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Actually it is quite the opposite lighter riders are at an disadvantage in the new ZRS.
If we look at climbs, where light riders have the greatest advantages, 2 rider with the same ZRS score, the lighter rider will come in behind on a TT race ADZ.
That is nonsense, theres 60kg Cat B riders with up to 4.4 W/KG in the 180-350 ZRS races, If a heavy rider was to try and match 4.4 W/KG on a climb of over 5 minutes they would be promoted straight out that pen, its the exact same unfair advantage but reversed that everybody was complaining about with old CE races when heavier riders had the advantage.
I think slow riders are disadvantaged.
I look around in the pen and I think," hey, I look about like that guy and that other guy too.
But the timer counts down and WHAM, people take off really hard and fast.
If this continues, I’m going to start thinking that they’re faster than me.
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I agree that it’s nonsense generally, but I’m also sure you find individual examples that do demonstrate that scenario.
Find a lighter rider with a score above their seed, and a heavier rider with the same score but it’s their floor. The heavier rider could indeed be faster up ADZ
That is true but probably more to do with riders that try all the time and riders who try to tank there score because if the heavier rider is quicker than the lighter rider they should not have the same score.
Want to play a game with me? Lets create an new account both will have the same ZRS score.
You take take 211 watts at 60KG @ 3.51 w/kg, that is a score of 281 or seed floor of 229.
I will take 250 @ 75KG @ 3.33, that is a score of 282 or seed floor of 229.
Both at 122cm
We will both race Stage 4 and see who can get the fastest time. You can only do this if you got Sauce or a head unit to sandbag the power.
I am saying mt 75KG will win, the climby stage of Box and Fox hill.
Zwift physics does strange things when you go outside the expected height range. That’s the height of an average 7 year old.
Does your theory hold if you use an adult sized bot?
Do 60kg and 100kg and do box hill course, the lighter rider will be miles ahead on the climb and remember the lighter rider is not restricted by their own power on the flat as they can then draft other riders.
Actually this is what I am going to try to do.
Target 279 watts at 75KG @ 3.72 w/kg
this will give me a seed floor of 299 or a natural score of 351.
Lets see can I beat all riders that are 200-299 or under. For Stage 4
That is 8781 riders.
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The new system seems to be broken. My top nemesis has beaten me 2-0. They are heavier, more powerful and put out more W/kg than I do in every time period, but I am somehow not only rated much higher, but now in a higher category.
In my last race I came 23 of 47 listed finishers. Bang in the middle, so obviously I am in the right group, but my rating went up and pushed me into the next band. Why?
There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system.
I have a feeling your nemesis is towards their floor value, so 15% discount. You are closer to your starting seed, so have that little bit extra in points terms.
Dont ask me to explain why as its a mess, it doesn’t work and the reasoning is wonky but zwift currently have their fingers in their ears about this issue.