This what happened in the Absa Cape Epic events last year. They announced in the race info that all riders below their cat were going to be DQ’d from the results. Because NOBODY reads to ride/race info there were a bunch of down cat riders so a few of us posted messages in the starting pens that they were going to be DQ’d and they wouldn’t get ride credit (a bit of artistic license because we really didn’t know that to be the case).
The result was essentially the first and only category enforcement event I’ve ever ridden. It was absolutely GLORIOUS!
This became the data point for me to indicate that simple pen enforcement would be the best first step. It’s taken nearly a year but here we are and it would be a great thing if those riding these events pointed out in the pens that the bullies are going to be DQ’d. Who knows, maybe the first pen enforced group rides ever!
If it were a race, sure, but it’s not. It’s listed as a group ride. There is no wrong pen in a group ride.
In the companion app description for this event, I don’t the word “race” is used at all and the term “GC” is only mentioned in the final paragraph.
Zwift events and Rapha had a choice on how to categorize this event, they chose “group ride” so they should abide by the norms for this type of event which does not include DQs and in which all riders are allowed to choose the pace category at which they would like to ride rather than their mandatory race category.
The problem is that instead of just making this event a race they have tried to make it a hybrid event with a GC competition tucked inside a group ride. I think they were genuinely trying to please everyone— those who like a social group ride and do not officially race (the vast majority of Zwifters from what I’ve read), the smaller subset of riders who officially race, and those who start to race upon sight of any other cyclist in their vicinity regardless of the event type. The idea of having an official race within a group ride just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and will probably be confusing to a lot of the folks they were hoping to please.
If it’s GC, does that mean all cats’ riders times get evaluated and the best time from any rider from any cat could be the winner? An A cat rider entering the D cat would not be helped, and likely hurt by not seeing as many of their direct competition during the event.
OTOH, if you’re not interested in the race option aspect, what would you care if you get a DQ on a ride? If you are interested in it being a race, then it’s your own fault for entering the wrong cat.
Exactly so. I just believe when w/kg categories are invoked, entrants should be limited to their pens. If they want to separate the pens by pace, then do that. But when you say Cat C is 2.5w/kg-3.2w/kg, there should not be Cat A and B riders joining no matter if they “intend” on riding C pace. Too often, they don’t and it fouls up the ride for others.
In this case, there is a GC prize and these Down Cat riders should not be allowed to join a group below them. Period.
Where have you seen that? The only mention of prizes (other than digital socks etc that everyone gets for riding some or all stages) I see is a prize draw which is drawn at random so not related to GC at all.
@Mark_Crane_TOG_G_65y
W/kg pens are routinely invoked and used for group rides and it only means that this is pace the group will ride not that it is the w/kg of the participants. Thousands of riders join group rides every week that are below their personal w/kg for training and social purposes. I have meant many lovely B riders in D group rides doing their recovery while enjoy chit chat. To my understanding w/kg in group rides are given to set the groups riding pace not as a limitation of participants.
@Wannie
I care about a DQ even if I don’t care about the race because I like have a sterling reputation as not being a sandbagger, lol. Seriously though, similar to James, I initially looked this up and said “Great a group ride! I can join the D group because that suits my training needs and group rides aren’t races so as on any other day in Zwift there would be nothing wrong with my doing so.” Now I will do the ride in my racing cat and likely ride alone because I don’t plan to ride that pace which misses the point of a group ride.
So guys, I get what you’re all saying and I agree with almost all of it (except @Wannie).
I’ve been talking about this internally with mind to get better involvement with people who are fully versed in Zwiftpower being involved at a relatively early stage in project creation, to discuss how an event should be set up and what factors need to be included, such as rules on ZP.
It’s not an overnight fix, but we’ll make progress.
Perhaps if ride organizers want their event to be open to all, they list it as an “A” group ride (any cat can join A), but indicate in the event title and description the w/kg or pace they want participants to hold? Or label it as “E” group ride with the same types of title/description info shown.
If you weren’t serious about have a DQ, then go ahead and join whatever pen you want. If you were serious, where exactly are these DQs being broadcast that can impact one’s reputation? If answer is Zwiftpower, since the ride is a ride and not a race, then you don’t have a worry about a DQ showing in a Race. One’s race reputation would remain intact.
Taking a quick look at the C cat results from the previous RR events shows the top threes to be real C riders in most of the rides. Third place in the first event is a solid B; don’t know why he’s still there. Most of the fast riders are light except for that B. There were 387 DQ’s in the first event.
I know this all seems like petty BS to some of you but much more powerful riders riding hard out of the gate makes for a less pleasant experience for those who are legitimately categorized in that pen. It’s not like the A and B pens were oversubscribed.
They can do, but that’s not how group rides usually work, and therefore it’s not surprising that riders didn’t think that this was the intention. They also might have been the only one at their pace, which isn’t really much of a group.
I rode A. Came about 5th last, but gave an Aussie guy a tow round the last 4 turns because he was struggling. So it was a nice enough ride, just a bit quieter than the other categories.
I finished Stage 1 this morning: I was 488 of 733 on the road and 186 of 288 in ZP. The first two finishers were light girls who are C cat overall/A and B cat women. Third place was a solid B rider: 3.84w/kg.
Looks like over 33% of the field got DQ’d.
I made up 100 positions on The Alpe: started 602 and ended at 492. Steady 2.7 resulted in 69:43 Alpe time.
Alrighty. In the 10am PST RR Stg1 event the top two C cat riders rode the entire Road to Sky route in under an hour whilst (I love that word) averaging 2.1 and 2.2w/kg over the course. I don’t think that is physically possible. First place averaged 128bpm!
