Not only uphill but on the flats. To be accurate I should have said slopes above 0.00001%.
but then how do we explain why I can’t supertuck at 80kph in TdZ without getting dropped from the double draft
I’m not sure. It depends on a few factors. Remember that super tucking is not some magic power that guarantees you stick on to some group. It just reduces your frontal area (less CdA - aero drag). Then all the calculations depend on things like distance to the ones in front of you and subsequent draft, what power others are putting out, speed, slope, etc.
OMG, yes - I’m late to the party (just saw this thread), but FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, it’d be really nice if some true steady-paced bot options could be offered. (I’m not advocating for replacing the dynamic pacers, but if we could just get a steady 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 pacer, that’d be amazing - finer increments within those breakpoints can be made by changing frames and wheels for the ride). I sorely miss having a solid pace where I could target my training needs w/o too much slacking off, or w/o eventually blowing up due to repeated surges!
Yeah, my go-to for true steady paced rides are custom workouts - easy to create, and guaranteed to provide a steady pace regardless of terrain, other riders, etc. That having been said, I find doing a 4w/kg solo ride for an hour in isolation to be mind-numbing and demotivating - I likely won’t last more than 40-45 minutes, as it just kinda sucks after a while, and I find myself counting down the minutes. Whereas riding with a partner or group, my mind is engaged enough that the hour passes quickly, and it’s motivating to keep the pace and not pull off the front or fall off the back. (The latter is generally the greater danger for me, LoL. :-). The old steady-paced pace partners were awesome for this.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy riding with the dynamic pacers, but just yesterday, I set out to do an hour of 4.0w/kg, and the pacer’s output varied between aprox 3.2w/kg and 4.8w/kg. My NP for the ride came out close to what I was looking for, but the surges and soft-pedaling periods were too variable for what I was trying to do. I needed the soft-pedaling periods after the crests of climbs to briefly recover from the surges on the uphills, but I’d’ve rather just kept right around 4.0 the whole time.)
Exactly. The dynamic pace fixes nothing, while breaking steady-state riding for those that want it. I rode with the Coco bot yesterday on a relatively flat route (Volcano circuit) and almost the entire pack (90% of riders) simply rode off/away from Coco, leaving her alone (despite the “dynamic pacing” being in place), and yet I got dropped since I was in ERG mode. So it doesn’t work for those who want a dyanmic pace, and it doesn’t work for those that want a static pace. Its hopeless.
Unless you make the bot in some way completely dynamic so that it simply uses “flock of birds” physics to stay in the highest surrounding pack density, its never going to properly respond to dynamic pace changes instigated by other riders. And so long as dynamic pacing is in place with no static pace alternative, it reduces ride options for those looking for steady state rides.
I have no idea why some people state they prefer dynamic pacing since a majority of riders demonstrably don’t seem to stay with the bot over crests even with dynamic pacing in place. But fine, let people who want that have the option - and provide proper steady pace bot alternatives for those of us looking for that too.
I actually think dynamic pacing makes the problem worse - because people who might be able to hang with, say a 2.7 bot if the pace was steady can’t comfortably do so when that bot surges to 3.2 up climbs… so they join a 2.2 pace bot instead… and then just ride off the front.
Personally, I prefer the dynamic pacing bots but I agree that the increase in w/kg is too aggressive uphill and combined with the constant surging back and forth makes it difficult to get a consistently paced workout. Maybe PD4 will help reduce the surging of the bot within the pack but the uphill % increase should be reduced.
For me, it was always the downhill pace that was an issue. If you fell off the back at all, it became a huge effort to catch up with the bot-pack. I’ve not been riding with bots since 1.33 and the removal of the autobrake so I’m hoping that will have helped. It certainly feels more “natural” at the moment, a bit extra uphill, a bit less downhill is what I experience IRL.
I’ve suggested this before, but putting all the bots on TT bikes, so they don’t get a draft benefit, would also stabilise the pace.
Really hope that PD4 improves the downhill churning and excess of speed.
And hope the pace in the flats drops a bit too. It´s amazing how C Cats rides and bots ride at 43-46 km/h. That creates a lot of problems for the riders that have low raw power.
A gap opens and you are on your own … and thats not fun at all!
First of all i never ride with pace bots so this is wild speculation on my part.
but is the problem not that there is one pace bot and a lot of riders with it so the bot is too influenced by the riders around it? If the pace bot is doing a certain w/kg but the other riders around it are doing slightly higher it will drag the bot faster.
you could do with a load of bots that make their own pack and so they wouldn’t be influenced by those around them, and you could join their pack which should go at a more steady pace - maybe?
"is it my legs…?
NO!
It’s the Bots that are out of touch !! "
Stricktly speaking Coco should never have been moved from Tempus Fugit @ 2.5wkg, I mean have we really improved from that 1st week
(well we have, thx James! and variable pacing works, just pick the right bot for where your legs are at)
And so what happens when you get all the bots doing the same w/kg? Does surging eventually develop and the pace increases or does the pace stay the same as a solo bot?
And how was the pack speed compared to Napoleon Solo? You would think it should be fairly similar since you always have a bot going the same w/kg at the front in a pack scenario.
Just gotta keep yourself above 27 km/h