In relation to 2 and 3, the breaking should be greater the closer you are to the inside turn because the angle is sharper. This would help prevent riders going into the corner at mach chicken and cutting the pack for a greater advantage at a sprint finish.
Incredible update. 1 step forward, 15 steps backward. The day a solo rider can descend at the same speed as a pack of riders will be the heat death of the universe.
Think magnitude, not x-length.
IRL a solo rider can descend at higher speed as a pack… if he really can!
“I’m sure we all”…
Let me stop you there. I seriously doubt that it would even be half.
Funny enough, I had this hypothesis last week after noticing almost no draft in streams on the New York Escalators, either up or down, already knowing that Radio Tower descent didn’t give any draft. However, after looking at some of the streams on the ~15% pitches on the New York climbs in the ZRL (up and down), those didn’t seem to exhibit the same behaviour, so I abandoned the idea.
But is it just one or both 180’s in London?
Richmond? Crit City?’
Would love to see slowing around corners on descents. It could be a wheel feature or even add a place for different tires and grip. e.g. Higher-end tires get better grip and thus faster around corners descending.
Yep, that’s pretty much every race for me.
I seldom have a variability index greater than 2%, it’s TT from start to finish. ![]()
I don’t think it’s down to draft effects though. It’s just Zwift racing as far as I can tell, and always has been for me since those ZTR/ZTR-EB races a decade ago.
IRL a solo rider (even a small, light one) might destroy a pack of riders on a descent because he is a much better rider than the others.
In Zwift races we need some of that, which means everyone getting precise steering, braking, and make them slow down through corners. If they don’t, they can crash. Also collisions in the pack. That would Make Racing More Exciting™.
It would introduce another aspect and not just who can smash the pedals harder than everyone else.
One of the MAAP events yesterday I was in (with usual racing heavy hitters at the front) turned into the same thing, everyone just went flat out the entire time. And wait for others to explode when they cannot handle the pace. I know, not a race and all that, but you know what people are like.
I’m somehow considered a light rider but I always think I’m not. I’m 71kg. I noticed this yesterday before even reading about the change being made, which must have occurred a little bit before the post.
I caught the very last Brompton race event which I was dreading doing because I never enjoyed “racing” on Zwift, and just do it for unlocks. Well, I “needed” that kit. So, I saddled up and got on the trainer, fully expecting to get hosed on the little downhill parts in Greater London Flat, which is one reason I don’t race on Zwift. Well, contrary to what I had done for years, that didn’t happen.
I watched people of varying power levels relatively sticking together as long as they were within range of each other.
At the end of the race, there was a field of 8 riders who completed, with 5 of us going through the line together. Checking ZwiftPower, there seemed to be neither an advantage for the heavier riders on the flatter route provided by that downhill part, nor a significant advantage for lighter riders to fly up and through. Raw watts still won in the truly flat stuff, so this does seem to have significantly improved things.
Still, I would love to see something truly flat on Zwift akin to May Field for runners, a velodrome or something to eliminate this incline field variable as an option, which could be leveraged in races or “see how many times the main group can be lapped” structured-flyer type of group ride events.
We have been saying as ride leaders on Zwift for years, “lighter riders push more on downhills”, I’m glad someone took notice to make some adjustments.
I’m used to having to push harder on downhills to keep up with heavier people in real life, but not proportionally so with how much I had to on Zwift.
I’m glad this was finally addressed. It has been a long time coming. Thanks to the Zwift team for working on this!
Have you ever watched a cvcade race where a rider crashed? (I think they went out of business.. probably related.) It is about as terrible as having flat tires or broken shifters on Zwift.
Better to spend money on “sticky bottles and cars that let you draft until you can catch the pack.
Just one and only in one direction.
On the descents, we don’t need riders who fail to brake appropriately for bends to crash, but it could be programmed that insufficient braking causes heavy auto braking to a “slow speed” (15kph?) for so many seconds after the bend apex.
While those that brake appropriately can get back on the power and back to hurtling down the mountain at breakneck speeds quicker, after the bend apex.
I really don’t want to have to worry about braking in a race, and most people don’t have equipment for it. A reasonable auto-braking algorithm would be nice.
It would be fun when everyone gets the necessary equipment to support it. Make it a bit more realistic and more exciting and bring other skills into it. Just like sim racing.
Auto braking is being used in other platforms
Don’t forget that currently, even when using 100% trainer difficulty, you only get 50% descent gradient simulation…
Time to ditch that and give heavier riders some hope after this drafting change!
This would require braking for corners, ideally making braking a skill through Zwift Click or Zwift Play controllers, rather than automatic for everyone.
And make it take longer for them to slow down for tight corners on big descents. As in real life.
Introduce cooked brakes and tyre explosions/ melted carbon wheels for bikes with rim brakes. ![]()
Not sure how this is ideal. Most folks don’t have Zwift click so why would they do that?
I would think a mid-ground would be the right thing to do, that is, a reasonable braking experience by default and the ability to optimize braking/cornering a bit if you have a click/play.
