I am 70 kg, 5,1 w/kg FTP, 420 ish PAM. Same stats as last year. Get dropped more than ever. I NEVER had a good result (say top 10 or front pack sprint) in ZRL A1 AND A2. While I perform well IRL, I can’t follow climbs at 7 w/kg and more for 4-5 minutes, followed by more attacks and sprints. I don’t know why I am such bad in Zwift racing, but I do am disappointed in so little dual records, transparent stats, IRL data, and realistic performances. I can’t understand why so many racers constantly do their very best PR in watts race after race… this seem ridiculous to me.
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This says everything we need to know.
Advanced racing is full of cheats. It’s like 1990s pro cycling, everyone is on EPO because they think everyone is on EPO.
Zwift also doesn’t help by using a speed calculation algorithm that rewards lighter riders unrealistically.
the fastest races on Zwift are the Japanese and Korean ones, where the 50-60kg riders are absolutely flying. ON THE FLAT.
In a flat race, 240w in the bunch will see a 60kg rider effortlessly hanging with 75kg riders pushing upper 300. In fact, those heavier riders, pushing much higher absolute watts will be struggling.
The number of times that i average 340+ NP in a FLAT race, only to be destroyed by tiny riders doing under 250 is ridiculous.
I’m burning 500+ calories in half an hour, just to keep up on the flat, then if there is an uphill finish, all these guys do 7 w/kg for 5 minutes (every race a new PB) and I go backwards, I mean literally half their speed.
And if there is a flat sprint, I do more absolute watts, but go backwards compared to 57kg pocket rockets doing 650.
Whether it’s weight, height, exaggerating the draft effect for smaller riders, or all three: it’s much faster to be light /small on Zwift.
Which of course, is why so many riders are so tiny, even though they might be somewhat larger IRL.
It’s also insane how many anonymous (initials) middle aged riders have pro level power output.
It’s also odd how so many riders from countries that don’t have much of a cycling scene also have pro level wattage. I mean, there’s a reason why the best riders tend to come from areas with an established elite scene.
My last three races:
A 12 year old did 428 (7w/kg) including 9.9 w/kg for 5 min to destroy the field.
An anonymous 49kg rider consistently attacked the bunch (on cobblestones - try riding on those at 49kg IRL) chasing him down had me doing 400+ for minutes at a time just to hang in the wheels, but he was doing only 250. He attacked before the finishing climb and did over 7w/kg for 5 mins, after doing over 5 for the preceding 23k. In this same race a 50+ rider did 4.7 for the duration, with an average HR of 84. On ZP his power profile shows he is constantly pedaaling 3s on, 3s off.
I needed NP 335 and 4.2 for 40 mins just to reach the foot of the Itza climb finish, the A group having ridden so hard we caught the Bs before halfway. Then a 998 ZRS rider did almost 6.7 for 10 mins to destroy the field.
If these performances were legit, we’d have a 12 year old Tour winner, a 49kg Classics winner and the 998 rider could certainly be a pro.
It’s just so disappointing that massively unrealistic performances don’t get challenged by Zwift. Races are ruined for those of us who aren’t superhuman or gaming the system. I mean, there are no legit 50+ riders with pro level FTP.
World Tour Pro Sam Bennett recently raced on Zwift, did pro level power output, but was beaten by a couple of anonymous middle aged riders who also bettered his watts. This is just so, well….Zwiftian
I wish there was more understanding of just how rare an FTP above 5w/kg and how unlikely it is for so many riders to able to best 6w/kg for 5 minutes in finishing climbs after averaging upper 4 w/kg until that climb. There are only a few thousand riders on the planet who can do this, yet almost every Zwift race sees one.
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That’s why I now consider only training on Zwift and using the platform for meetups and events with team members, and only participate in specific events such as Canadian ESports championships, where proper verifications are done, and where you need to record yourself on the scale, show your bike setup and power sources, etc., following a protocol. Even then, I heard so much things about changing static weight of power pedals, calibrating while pedals are uneven, using single sided data while showing duo power pedals… It’s kind of depressing, and I don’t think it will ever be possible to address these issues. That’s why ESports championships take place IRL, ironically, with same setups and people to check.
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While, as you acknowledge, the checks can’t be perfect, there are racing series on Zwift that I think do a better job of performance verification than ZRL or Zwift HQ. These are put on by community organizers. If you interested in learning more about that, you can take a look a some earlier posts in this thread including on of mine (linked here).
If you want to continue to race on Zwift, there are opportunities for fairer (though not perfect) racing, but it will take more effort to find them.
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For me there are some fairly simple adjustments that could make some difference.
no anonymous accounts in Advanced racing
Cross reference age v performance for credibility
Any racing performance over 5.5 w/kg average / 6.5 w/kg 5min average = DSQ (and immediate removal) unless user has proven to Zwift that they are legit
How do you legitimize elite performance?
well, not being anonymous, old and improbably light for starters (not many 50+ Northern European men are 53kg, for example)
Anyone who has raced at elite level at some stage since 2000 should be able to demonstrate their presence in such races. Or a strava account. Or some sort of demonstrable background in elite sports / fitness.
Demonstrate that your setup is correct (ie pedal length entered correctly if using a PM, no e-bike)
If Zwift estimates your VO2 max at 80+, maybe they could ask you to verify that with a test?
The terms and conditions of using Zwift should state that Zwift can kick you off the platform, no refund, if they are satisfied that you are cheating in races.
I mean, short of asking all users to weigh and measure themselves on video, there are some easy options to target the ‘unbelievable’ performances.
A fairly basic one is to assume that almost all of them are total BS.
Just seen a guy pop up on ZP with a zFTP of 452, black A rider. Check out one of his power files:
How can this not trigger some sort of DSQ? It is physiologically impossible to achieve this!
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I am going to keep my answer short and to the point.
Zwift doesn’t care, they are making money on sub’s
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While I fully agree with the things you mention, I also doubt Zwift is going to put in the work, hours and so money to check all the riders in advanced.
And some are most likely prown to privacy rules even in the different countries people ride from.
And their CFO wont be happy if a lot of cheaters get caught, banned or leave the platform. Its is 240 euros/dollars a year for every one of them they lose. Thats not much if it is just a few, but will add up if I have to believe you and others in this topic and hunderds or thousands leave/get banned.
The CFO wont like it much I guess if someone told him ‘I banned 1000 riders from the platform, so yeah, we lose 240.000 dollar each year’ but racing is more fair now.
So I am afraid that wont happen and all we can hope for is small changes like weight changes put on a limit and a little more looks on stupid power outputs.
And in the meantime there are plenty mentions of races on Zwift who arent controlled by Zwift and are way more strict on their riders. So just do these.
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I’m sorry but you push this out every time with the allegation that this is only by weight.
What height are these riders, that’s something you don’t say. And again didn’t say in the post above.
At just below 60kg I have NO advantage in speed on the flat with 173cm height. Staying with bigger faster riders is absolutely not easy. IRL I have no dramas staying in their draft, but IRL doesn’t have Zwift pack dynamics messing with things.
Go watch the daily ADZ laps. I saw a 36 minute time the other day from an elite rider who WAS banned officially by Zwift at one point. These excessively fast times make you wonder. And big, strongly built riders doing 33 minutes up there in a TTT race?
I am there daily and see the dubious times from all sorts.
Show weights / heights and changes to both from day to day in the companion app, just as it is shown in Zwiftpower. And exclude Zpower from leaderboards.
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that called ERG not ban, in most places, @DejanPresen who still need to put it in his right up what is DQ..
Yes, but an extremely rare example.