New method of cheating?

I just finished a Cat D race Category Enforced, (I’ve been Zwift racing for years) and was really surprised by how fast and how much power we were putting out. Checking the results showed at least a few riders putting out 400 watts, at 2.7 or so watts/kg. These guys would be horses. Avg heart rates at 130-140. Of course on checking profiles a lot of them are private and on Strava they have no outside rides. The race would start and they go out of the pen like rockets. These races were all mostly flat and even if it did pitch up these riders would have already blown up the field. Suspicious…

Have you ever done a full series of four Zwift Insider Tiny Races before?

Today’s zone 2 pen D was just as expected, brutal ~10min races with a few minutes recovery between each.

Today’s quartet mostly favoured pure Watts over W/Kg and we had the two strongest pure Watt D riders with us today, along with some other strong D racers.

Average heart rates were way higher than 130-140 after race #1, look at zwiftpower results! :wink:

I notice you are on ZwiftPower. If you check the ZP results you will get a better idea of why two riders we’re doing over 400 watts. One rider is very heavy and the other rider is almost certainly 2 riders on a tandem.

As Steve has said these Tiny Races are hard and fast from the start and you are against some of the best D cat racers.

And there lies the issue with categorization based on W/kg.
400 w (even 350 watts) is a big number to hold for an extended period.
People think it’s normal to hold 400 watts because if they weigh 133 kg, that’s only 3 w/kg.
Not normal. 400 watts is hard.
I’ve long argued that light riders (less than 45 kg) are outside of the realistic parameters for the Zwift algorithm.
Same with heavy riders.
There must be a point where the numbers don’t come close to reality.

If you can hold 400 watts, you should not be in cat D regardless of your weight.
Move up to C or B and that 133 kg rider putting out 400 watts probably gets dropped - closer to real life.

Am I arguing for watt floors and ceilings?
Zwift is a strange universe!


I can see why you’d think it looks suspect. And it sort of does if they have no outside rides, private profiles, etc.

If they really are capable of that performance then let them produce some additional proof to show it. That would go some way to improving the perception of fairness.

Doing 400w for me at 5 minutes used to be possible before my crash and it was over 6.5w/kg - damn hard work and definitely not cruising along at 140bpm.

I used to do 4x5min at that power… max effort and very very hard.

I do it every week! It’s my zone 4, 5 workout!

My post is about the suspiciousness of a rider who would weigh over 300lbs putting out over 400 watts. Do you know anyone like this? I do not. There are laws of physics and bio-mechanics that prevent such people from existing. People that big have to overcome their own mass just to move. That is why there are no pro riders who are 300 lbs.


I bet you don’t weigh 340 lbs either.

Yep pretty sure there is something wrong with their trainer/power pedals whether intentional or not is debatle but i’m not believeing the power numbers for one second. As for the tandom probably should be banned. I would certainly consider banning riders using a tandem if they were in a race i organised.


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The tandem crew are dominant in D category Tiny Races and the ZRacing monthly series. I’m not surprised that Zwift doesn’t care since they allow all sorts of shenanigans in their events, but I do wonder what @Eric_Schlange_ZwftIn thinks about it.

I am a good amateur cyclist in cat 1, I’ve come to the conclusion that cheating in Zwift is common, I see riders doing 8-11 W/kg up short climbs, I get dropped, and this doesn’t happen in real racing, all it takes is lying about your weight by 20lb and it makes an absolutely huge difference, and that’s easy to get away with for an average size person, a 170lb guy claiming 150lb is a massive difference in real world performance.


What?? Get right out of town!!! No way!!!



Report them if you see them. And keep reporting them.

Unfortunately when that is suggested someone says “it’s only a game” and besides they are enjoying it and what’s the problem.

I’ll remain on the side of reporting them. At least I’m trying to keep things fair and honest for all.

Flame away…


Really depends what you mean by short climb. I can smash up Clyde Kicker at 8-9 w/kg and I say 50-60% of Zwift population can do that too.

And just saying I can’t do something makes someone else a cheater is meh. Guess 50-60% of the Zwift population is cheating.

There are folk who are blatant about it.

Today in two Rewind Events, same rider fluctuating between 230w and 330w, no in between. The entire ride time in both events like that. Maybe you can hold 330w exactly with no deviation for 10 minutes or more, but it’s beyond my ability.

Much like the guy doing the entire ADZ climb of 40 minutes or more at 165rpm cadence and more than 300 watts steady. It looked like second lap of ADZ at that pace as well.

I’m not talking about sprinting, how many cat 1 races have you won? That’ll be 28 for me in the last 5 years, I know what I’m talking about and Zwift is a game for cheaters

But also, just because you lost doesn’t necessarily mean the others are cheating. Zwift is a much larger pond than your local P1/2 race.

That’s true as well, Zwift has some very strong riders, but it also has some very strong power meters and smart trainers… if you get the right ones - happy days. Wrong ones, you have to put in more effort.

i have never wanted to give a cat 1 a wedgie more in my entire life