That’s interesting information. Down here in NZ, WattBike has a mobile calibration setup. The whole bike goes on it less one crank arm and the bike is VSD direct driven with a custom monitor that compares the power delivered by the electric motor (this can be accurately measured and calculated) to what’s being recorded and then just software calibrates three variables then stored in EEPROM for the sensor so the two match. I’m rebuilding the strain gauges for the WattBikes and can bench calibrate them within a few percent. The process is still evolving but think I can get them to 1% to match the new sensors coming out of the factory so they do not even need to go on the calibrator to be verified.
No, I don’t think that’s what I meant but my question to you is “what is your goal for this exercise?”
Don’t misunderstand stand me.
I agree with what you are suggesting but Zwift can’t control all the variables, but I can control them for me.
I do everything in my power to have the most accurate system I can have with my current equipment and I am willing to make all my data public including HR , dual records and outdoor rides.
That’s all you can do too.
I can lie about weight or take testosterone replacement and you would never know.
I don’t expect Zwift to control all the variables but they could make an effort to control some of them.
I have a dumb trainer , Kinetic with InRide power and using my Assioma pedals, am able to control my calibration to have accuracy within 2%.
There’s a lot of set ups out there that can’t make that claim.
Don’t trust any manufacturer that claims calibration not needed
I recommend a trust but verify approach.
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Pure transparency, the more information the better really. Would probably have to be column with abbreviations and then you would need to go to a page to get a full description as the are so many options out there. Its no different to the team page link in ZwiftPower you just click on it to see the equipment they are using instead of the team. Look I know how to rig a WattBike because I service them, but rather than using that knowledge to cheat and smash everyone in A Cat, I use the knowledge to know how hard it is for the average WattBike user to rig the bike. If you are riding a Wattbike Atom X, its about as accurate as it gets so why wouldn’t I want to know the results from anyone else using comparable equipment ?
I think I agree with you.
It’s just sometimes I don’t know if I’m realistic or disillusioned.
I look at my results and I compare them against someone I know personally and they are pretty realistic. There are plenty of results from the racing that are a complete joke after you factor in the age and weight but it is what it is. I have already given Zwift the idea of a power platform, its pretty easy its just a USB cable connected large platform like a set of scales that weighs both the bike and the rider in real time and uses some smarts to ensure they are actually riding on the platform and there goes most of the cheating. Zwift already knows exactly what the power source is coming from when you have a dedicated indoor trainer so it knows the weight of the bike.
Problem is there are methods out there to manipulate data from a reputable smart trainer. This has already been done in elite racing before.
You have to then use some automated checks and balances to establish if the power/performance is realistic or not.
Sure but its about eliminating 95% of the problem not giving up on the problem entirely.
I have been very consistent on the approach of bit by bit solving that problem, rather than just saying “we cannot solve all parts of the problem, so we won’t do anything, oh and it’s just a game, and they pay their money”.
Well the worst one is “They are only cheating themselves” probably quoted by people who have never done a race in their life and had to put 100% effort into it.
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Forgive my ignorance, but would that platform not only work on hard flooring? If your setup is on a carpet or a mat it would under-read, assuming it would work similar to a normal set of scales.
Why would it under read ? How many people have their trainer on anything but a hard floor surface anyway ? It would work on concrete, garage carpet, wooden floors and pretty much anything you would want to ride on anyway. Each of the four feet just have a load cell in them, its not quite like your bathroom scales that only has one load cell in it. You need four load cells to be able to do the smarts required to ensure the rider is actually on the bike and is riding it. As you ride the weight distribution changes in perfect sync with the cadence and should even be able to tell the difference between left and right. This allows full time live monitoring. The platform will even know when you come off the seat and start sprinting because more weight will shift to the front sensors but the total weight will be the same. Sure if you pickup a bottle of water or store a bottle of water on your bike you will suffer the same penalty as the same bottle on your road bike cycling outside.
then you have to mandate water bottle be on the bike ? or be off the bike……… @Carl_Watts
You are worrying about the wrong thing. Zwift knows the weight of you trainer because it will report it to Zwift, not a manual entry and so its easy, the weight of the rider is the total weight less the weight of the trainer. If you store the bottle of water on the bike you get pinged for it exactly the same as a ride on the road as it becomes part of the rider weight.
Did the SZR race on Friday.
Everyone’s favourite anonymous middle aged flag collector did 9w/kg for a minute, 5.5 for 5 mins and 4.8 for 20 minutes.
This is a guy who was - as I understand - caught cheating and kicked off his team. But no sanction from Zwift, and immediately signs for another team.
9 w/kg is not world class as a fresh effort, but doing that for the last minute of a race that also involved 4.8 for 20 and 5.5 for 5 is ridiculous.
When you are in your mid 40s and ride anonymously it’s tell tale as F.
And when you’ve actually been caught cheating, it’s just ridiculous.
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I appreciate what you are suggesting and agree that Zwift should be able to do something to make racing a better experience but there are some fundamental flaws in your suggestion.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate so bear with me
Why would anyone buy your proposed platform.
It ,in no way, enhances their Zwift experience, does not add comfort, does not increase training efficiency.
It costs the user money and its only goal is to prove to others that the user is not using just one of the hacks or tricks people use to cheat.
People won’t purchase additional hardware for this purpose.
But I agree, Zwift could identity the exaggerated performance, handicap the rider until they demonstrate an accurate trainer or verify their performance.
People who cheat “a little” will probably get away with it.
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Hearsay, your honor
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LOL see you miss the point.
Agreed very few will buy it……right up until Zwift starts setting up races that require you to have one.
Your shot at a podium finish then becomes more realistic because it dumps all the cheaters and the people that don’t want to pay for a platform, mainly because they are cheating in the first place. I have heard it all before, “I cannot afford one” with the likes of upgrading 1997 equipment in the world of indoor rowing so they had to use a verification code the monitor put out with any newer monitor made after 2003. We were talking $160 here so basically the move not to do this potentially ruined it for everyone. Cat A racing would be the worst on terms of offenders.
You have to look at the big picture, Zwift has lost some big events to the likes on My Woosh I think it was so going forward its a race for survival. You innovate and improve or you die.
I suppose.
But this rider has the worst of both worlds:
The A/A+ community are convinced he is a proven cheat
Zwift offers no way for him to prove that he isn’t or demand that he demonstrates he can produce pro power output in middle age, or ride under his actual name etc
Zwift allows his rivals to call him out as a cheat in the race chat and repeatedly flag him
None of this is exacty helpful.
How hard is it to ask riders who produce pro level power to ride under their full name and submit some basic setup and background information? There really can’t be that many riders with FTP above 5.5w/kg and 5 min power exceeding 6.5.
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