Culling Dead Community Events

This is a tangent to my post from a few days ago on having fewer races during TdZ (Fewer Other Races During TdZ) that I thought warranted a separate discussion.

Sometimes browsing the Zwift events feed feels a little like walking through a half abandoned shopping mall. You can tell there used to be a lot going on, but a lot of store fronts are shuttered, Auntie Anne’s is the only thing left in the food court, and there’s only a few other lonely souls wandering the halls.

Last week I found myself in the NCNCA Gold Rush series double header. I’d never done it before, but realized after the first race that the first race was actually a points race, which was super exciting. The racing was really dynamic because people were attacking the banner every lap, and if I calculated the points correctly, I think I won! The description says that final results will be posted to zwift power, but I have seen nothing about points anywhere on zwift power, just the ranking based on finish line order/time. I found the NCNCA Gold Rush’s facebook page and nothing has been posted on it since last summer. I messaged and received no response. They claim to have a monthly omnium standings that you can compete for, but as far as I can tell this isn’t happening anymore, and it’s just dead. I understand that this stuff is volunteer run, but it would be good to have things like this simply not happen. It seems like maybe Zwift has given organizers a way to just create a ton of events ahead of time and these events just continue to run long after the organizer is no longer interested (the KISS race series starting audio file seems to be way out of date in the same way… IIRC it mentions some things that applied to Zwift racing years ago, but don’t any longer).

I really like the idea of the NCNCA Gold Rush omnium and was hoping to actually try for the monthly title next month, but it’s dead. So now I’ve spent a lot of time trying to track down 3rd party websites and people only to be frustrated in the end. This is not a good user experience.

Another side tangent: Zwift should have points racing built in with live scores just like the Premiere League, but for the rest of us. Because its super fun.

I’ve got a 30k line spreadsheet open with events data at the moment. Hoping to start having a look into this this week.

Send me a link (or Event ID) to the event and I’ll have a look.

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James don’t start culling events now that we are so close to pen enforcement.

I would guess once we have pen enforcement there will be new life in racing.

You take away all my fun :slight_smile:

I’m not culling anything - just starting analysis.

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So I do my job well. :upside_down_face:

I’m also not going to keep an event on the public calendar that hasn’t been looking after in however long, which was why I wanted to have a look at it first.

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That makes a lot of sense.

The one thing that I assume you are looking at is to balance the public calendar. I would say there need at least one race every hour and probably a group ride every 30min every day.

This post was a bit of an eye opener for me, I was told that 6am EST was not a popular riding time but looking at the graph it seem that even without many events there are a lot of people riding. An Analysis of Zwift Usage Data | Zwift Insider

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Yeah, that would make sense - before work on the East Coast and lunchtime for mainland Europe.

Billion dollar company…

Sod IRL Tron bikes, some of that capital needs to go into the basic underlying systems poor folks like you are having to wrangle with to keep the user experience afloat. I’m just ranting for no reason here, but I really wish Zwift didn’t keep pretending it’s still a startup.

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It’s not even so much balancing (although that is one of the points) but more about making sure that there is engaging content for everyone at whenever they want to use Zwift.

Having a number of less attended rides, doesn’t help with that (although I’m not saying that this means that they are bad rides), nor does poorly led or managed ones. We want the experience for each ride/race/workout to be good and to bring the same person back at either the same time next week to do the same ride, or for them to look for others to do too.

There’ll definitely be more than one race per hour and group ride per 30 minutes - but we want them to be good ones.

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This is entirely my fault for using far too much data. Looking at 3 months of events (this includes club events and private ones that I don’t want to look at).

It has pretty colours though and this makes me very happy.

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But does it have VBS macros? LOL

Yes that is very important.

Can you limit the amount of group rides using the desert at any one time…

The amount of rides that use Tick tock, Tempus Fugit & Watopias waistband are painful.

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In my life, I’ve found it’s often easier to simply ask data people “please can you just give me all this data in a csv file?” than ask them to pull out x, y and z data. Easier for them, and therefore easier for you to get the data.

Sometimes you get a ridiculously huge file, but sometimes you also find gems of data you’d never have asked for otherwise.

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Whoa, this is next level stuff :wink:

Simple fact is that it’s easier to keep a group ride together on those courses. That doesn’t mean that every ride has to use them though.

Only reason I mentioned it was that a while ago I set up an ill-fated race series and the process at that time for submitting and amending the events was absolutely laughable (it used Google Sheets!). One of the events chaps unexpectedly quit around that time and I wouldn’t be amazed if it was because how daft the situation was - it seemed overwhelming. I even knocked up something better myself in Excel for lols, but that never went anywhere of course. It seemed like they just needed to chuck some money at getting someone externally to design and develop a proper events management system.

Maybe (hopefully!) that’s all changed now, it was just the mention of a massive spreadsheet that irked me. :rofl:

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I promise not to update 30,000 events using Google Sheets.

The process we use has changed considerably since then. I used to use the same spreadsheet format as an event organiser, which would be fine (ish) if there were only a small number of organisers creating events.

Now weekly events are automatically rebuilt each week and a number of our organisers have tools to be able to manage parts of the event setup themselves and only have to contact Zwift for certain things, which being well, will reduce in number as we make improvements.

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Good stuff, sorry for going off-topic.

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Here’s the link: The at Home Cycling & Running Virtual Training App

And for the record, I hope that its not dead because I would really like to participate. It seems like a really cool race series.

I will also put here a bit of off topic feedback that I’m sure Zwift has heard before, but here it is anyway. I was discussing Zwift racing with a colleague here at work. He and I both race together each week and for both of us the only reason we are sending over our monthly payment to Zwift is racing. We don’t care at all about the training plans, getting new maps, etc. I know we are probably a minority, but I doubt we’re an insignificant minority. It seems like Zwift should be funding a small dev team to work specifically on improving the racing experience. The things we want are auto-cat systems to keep races interesting and competitive as we improve rather than becoming top dog for awhile at some W/kg and then getting dumped into the next category and dropped every race in the three minutes (pen enforcement doesn’t actually interest me, frankly, because sandbagging isn’t that big an issue in the B races I typically join–rarely does someone get DQed on zwiftpower and most of the top 10 are on zwiftpower in every race I’m in, and it doesn’t actually fix the problem that W/kg is broken on delivery as a category system). And things like having in-game managed points races and monthly rankings for a race series, rather than this weird amalgamation of facebook groups, zwift power, google surveys (how I supposedly “signed up” to race NCNCA in the first place), etc. are much more important to me than a new map to race in. There are already good race courses in Zwift, but the racing itself needs to become more advanced than it is. More race modes and more auto-managed and in-game rather than volunteer managed like its an actual outdoor event. My view of Zwift is as Mario Kart controlled by my legs, not USAC on my computer. The racing shouldn’t need volunteers to support it at all. Call of duty doesn’t need event managers from the community. I say I want to play and it puts me in a game with 30 other people at roughly my skill level and I play them and it never feels like I’m way behind the others nor way better than the others, and the whole thing is automatically managed in game. No facebook groups and silent volunteers involved.

I hope that Zwift is using at least some of the money I (and others like me) are spending with it to work specifically on developing racing features, because racing is the only reason I’m paying Zwift money in the first place and its time to get some more advanced features out the door.

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Thanks. Totally understood and appreciated. You are very much not alone. I would disagree with your comments about Zwift not needing event organisers (I run Herd Racing and its approx 30 events weekly). There are Zwift sanctioned events/series as well as Community ones and both play a part in our calendar - Community Organisers also have a significant amount of pride in the events they put on and how they run them.

It looks like that series is no longer being managed as a league in ZwiftPower. Probably hasn’t for at least a month (possibly more) as I closed all the leagues that hadn’t been touched for a month or longer and I did that about a month ago.