What are the non-COPPA reasons it’s a good call, Graham?
I agree with you that Zwift should create a Juniors race series, but in my experience virtually – just like in real life – solid juniors more than hold their own against adults. And I don’t buy the bullying/abuse angle, either, for ZRL specifically, because the only exposure to other racers the kids have is with adults on their own team (which is almost 100% of the time inclusive of one of their parents, and 100% of the time with their parents’ consent – per Zwift account creation policies, which I 100% appreciate and applaud). Also, re: abuse & exposure to bad behavior, do note that U16s on Zwift are blocked from seeing and participating in messaging during events, so they don’t even see any of that banter.
My opinion: if a kid can hold their own against adults and their parent/guardian is ok with it, let them race.
In real life Juniors dont race with Adults and indeed in most affiliations have restrictions for example on gearing and other things to protect there particular physiological situation. Yes its arbitrary and subjective to some extent where those lines are drawn , some will clearly be outliers BUT it is a recognition of good scientific and medical information.
In Zwift , the same rules apply in theory . However just like someone can weight dope , I guess they can age dope too . So where is the harm you say . Well look around at severael of the more contentious and unhappy threads on this forum and many revolve are categorisation and w/kg problems with Racing . Junior riders are IMO a major outlier problem in this space , why , because there kg is normally at the extremes of the scale that is used , and we know what that means . 25kg and 30kg riders are going to be misclassified and that is why they might appear to the “competitive” because they are being held down in lower cats that there performance would truly demand , there are clauses about minimum W , which super lightweights are going to just never cross.
So its not just stay of my lawn ( its not mine anyway) . Its give them there your own lawn (with age appropriate classification entry) and ride on that .
I’m not surprised WTRL shutdown the comments to avoid the angry mob with pitchforks as it was Zwifts decision so these forums are the correct place. Just we get the usual radio silence from zwift on the matter but I’m told they will provide and update by the end of the week so hopefully that gives further explanation or reversal of the decision.
Was it actually Zwift’s decision? So far all we have is some rather vague comments from WTRL, passing the buck on to … who exactly? The usual fan club have weighed in of course with their opinions as to just why it was obviously needed due to [some imaginary reason] but no-one has actually been prepared to take any responsibility for this decision and explain why it was made. The conclusion is, I think, pretty obvious.
so are they going to put all u16 in a bubble on zwift? What about all the other far less scrutinized series on zwift they need to ban them there as well. The risk there is even worse than zrl.
from what i saw yes. I’ll need to dig out the post but they might of like you suggest just said it was not our ‘WTRL’ decision so who else is there other than Zwift or they are outright lying and it was their decision which would be even worse.
Is there any other events that pull Zwift user data out of the Zwift sphere or eco-system as such? I dont think there is currently…
There is an argument I suppose that pulling results into Facebook or publishing results in FB should face the same scrutiny if it involves under 16 details? But its all guesswork & speculation on my behalf…
No and if that’s the issue then i’d suggest a company as big as zwift should be then looking at bringing WTRL in house or developing a system themselves if their chosen partner can’t deliver services for their full customer base.
And as you say i’m not sure where the line is drawn between automated or manually pulled results.
Please no. With the WTRL attitude we don’t need to have them part of Zwift.
This is what we need something that ALL organizers can use.
The only reason that WTRL is so big is because they can use the API to do some gatekeeping to get the correct people in the starting pen. There is many other great organizers that would put even better events together if they had the tools.
Still unclear what aspect of ZRL is making them take this decisions when compared to the hundreds of other races and series on zwift.
This sort of info should be shared with event organisers I would of thought as I run a series on zwift do I need to somehow ban under 16?
They either need to apply the rules to all if it’s a genuine legal requirement or move away from using WTRL if that is the issue. (Kids are still being allowed in TTT so further confusion???)
Charlie Issendorf? He was in a number of the Zwift Classic events, C3 WestOz, I rode and experienced the same shellacking the rest of us midgets and low B riders got from the big kids from the A school. I guess he just didn’t care that much or something.
