The problem with ZRS is it does the exact opposite of what it is meant to do, instead of making each Cat closer in terms of ability of riders it increases the gap, the 180-350 Cat for example is actually more like 150-400 (seed score).
Riders with 2.5 W/KG 5 minute power racing riders with 4.2W/KG is crazy.
Stick some W/KG limits on each Cat could solve a lot of problems, also riders who never podium should not be promoted, if they cannot win in Cat D then why promote to Cat C?
W/KG is not everything. Nor is W/CdA. That’s why a good racing score can be better than the old category system. It can take into account that we all have different power curves, different ability between climbs or other hard efforts. It can also take account tactics–looking at the results afterwards you can see that having the highest W/KG during the race does not guarantee the best finishing position because a tactical racer can limit how much watts they need to use to stay with a group.
I’d also ask where you get your numbers. I wasn’t aware that details on how 5 minute power translate to seed score was released, though I may have missed it. I do know that your 180-350 category is outdated, the new alternating category system is narrower.
I’m closer to agreeing with this because ZRS is kind of broken. I think my complaints have mostly been covered before. As an alternative system, I’m not sure that podium shuold necessarily be a requirement for a promotion, but that is more or less my understanding of category promotion for IRL racing. It could solve some problems. But I think with other scoring system reforms, it might not be necessary. Though maybe make it so if you podium (in a field with at least x number of riders) then your score goes up a lot more.
My problem, really, is that someone who can always be in the top half of the results (or even a bit below, because ZRS is really broken) will gradually increase in ZRS until they are promoted. Even if they are closer to the middle than to the podium. That means that if someone never approves in power or skill will still be promoted.
Depending on the hour, I was just promoted to B (I’m upper C or lower B). I was happy with how well I did in my first B race, but I was still 18th out of 30. Nonetheless my score went up–and that makes absolutely no sense. I didn’t mind the promotion to B even though I don’t think I ever podiumed in C, because I was regularly close. But now it’s possible that I could get promoted to A when I can barely hang on to the pack in B and I think that would be absurd. (I’m not sure that’s likely since I probably won’t do as well on hillier races, and it would still take 30-50 races with that level of score increase).
“That’s why a good racing score can be better than the old category system.”
Maybe but at present we don’t have a good racing score, it does not take into account different power curves, it favours riders with a flat power curve, your zFTP can match your zMAP and you still have the same score at the moment.
Theres a site that will give you seed score based on 5 minute power and weight, google ZWIFT ZRS v3 by VirtuSlo
You cannot say something is better or worse unless you base that on some metric by which you can measure, I am using the difference in 5 minute power to show the gaps in ability in 180-350 cat which are still used btw are wider now than previous W/KG Cats, the zFTP gaps are just as wide also.
What will be better is probably the experience of a lot of riders who were stuck at the bottom of a Cat but this could of been done by moving Cat limits.
The scoring method is also way out of whack, If you want to never increase your ZRS and stay in the same Cat or drop down to the Cat below then its easy.
The anti tanking also does not work, leave the start line 10 seconds after the start and do your normal power, mission accomplished.
Loss of community racing has for me been the biggest hit to my Zwift experience since I started many years ago. If you want a field of more than 10 riders you have to race the Zwift official on the hour races which just removes ‘choice’. Im on the edge of bailing off zwift because of this.
I tried Rouvy for a few months and I still have an active subscription although I don’t intend to renew it. I found the real-world environments to be pretty cool and almost worth staying, but the lack of racing pushed me back to Zwift.
I’ve raced up to 3 times/week on Zwift for a few years now. It has its flaws, no doubt, but it’s amazing the entire system works as well as it does. There are sandbaggers and weight-cheaters, for sure. I also believe the difference in trainers/equipment is just as likely to be a factor. We’d all have to ride the same trainer - calibrated in the same manner and frequency - in order to address trainer variability.
Zwift racing roughly replicates IRL. I do well in climbing races IRL and in Zwift (IZL?). I struggle on flats and sprints IRL and IZL.
I do maintain that Zwift should completely ditch any WKG categories for reasons we’ve all identified for years. As far as I know, weight has no bearing on IRL racing. If anything, age should be emphasized, which is how my local IRL races are categorized.
Can you imagine starting pens based on age? A profile photo could be a requirement, or upload a (redacted) driver’s license or other ID.
Those would probably feel more like mass start events though. At 19-34yo you would have completely new cyclists to pro-level power.
Even in the 50-55 range that’s mostly true. There are amazing athletes and people with zero fitness, and people with rubbish trainers
The other thing with age cats is… some folks have trainers that are miscalibrated, at least if they are consistently miscalibrated they would start/seeded in a reasonable power based category (be that C, B, or A), but if the categories were age-cat you could have folks in the older age cats with consistently miscalibrated trainers winning forever.
Will there be a special age category for those claiming to be centuries old, like Connor McCloud of the clan McCloud?
Who is going to verify every racer’s age?
I just saw the w/kg for the World e-cycling championships and realised that I regularly see this sort of wattage from anonymous middle aged riders in lowly attended midweek Zwift races.
Where do you think they train…..
Yeah, as much as I am frustrated about how much I get wrecked in my lowly cat, at least I’m not up against world tour power from wonky power meters in A cat 