Lots of people in other places saying there needs to be an A+ cat. ZP C riders placed in A against 20 minute 5 w/kg riders is not going to be fair at all.
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Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but saying that a rider with a MAP above 360W will be in Cat A surely means that you’re going to have lots of current Cat C riders suddenly limited to just Cat A just because they are heavy?
This seems to go totally against your previous forum posts stating explicitly that this would just be enforcement of the current categories. What is so disappointing is that many people questioned this only to be repeatedly told that you would be sticking to the current categories, yet now we find out that they are being redefined. Clearly if you are bringing MAP into this (not necessarily a bad thing), this goes totally against what you have previously said and is redefining the categories at the detriment of heavier riders!
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Right? I can’t even do 5.0 for 5 minutes. Why would I want to race with a bunch of people who can do it for 20 minutes?
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The enforcement as it is right now, is that already based on the last two months of data, including races and group rides? Does it include solo efforts and workouts? Or is it initially based on some baseline that we will probably all move around from straight away?
Reason I ask is that I already feel like being in cat B will be really unsuitable for me and after a few events of being slaughtered I’ll probably give up on it. This is what happened with the Autocat races - they said it would be changed and adjusted on the fly but it demonstrably wasn’t - so rightly or wrongly I lost interest.
I’m absolutely not demanding special treatment here, if this is just how it goes for someone with my metrics then so be it. Be massively disappointing of course, but you can’t please everyone and that’s fine.
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I’m a decent C rider but this puts me in B. I know I’m super close to getting upgraded but I manage my efforts in races to stay a solid C. I guess the calculation doesn’t like this so upgrades me.
I’ve mentioned this to a few people already but category enforcement will only work with more categories. 3.3 to 4 w/kg is a huge variation in ability so this needs to split into 2 or even 3 to create sub-races which are fun for all and competitive to all. I think Zwift has enough users and racers now to facilitate more categories but I appreciate this would be a hefty change to what we have.
ZRL racing outside of A is all about managing your effort to the max within your category. For me, I like this. Category enforcement means I’d be penalised for doing this and most likely riding on my own in a B race.
As it stands, I can’t see me using this function.
This is the very definition of cruising. That’s why we eventually need a results-based system.
I think it’s odd that a large number of folks would rather slow down, quit a race, and/or intentionally “manage their numbers” so that they could keep beating up on lesser talent.
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If you’ve been moved up, it sounds like this system has worked as intended. Have a proper go in B - with no holding back - and see how it feels with no sandbaggers in B. You might surprise yourself!
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Wow, that’s like cruiser bingo there.
Think, if everyone raced in their right category then you wouldn’t end up racing by yourself as you would get a fair spread across the range…
That last sentence is the kicker, cruisers will simply hide from this until it is enforced on them. That can’t come soon enough.
Edit to add - your going to take some stick for that post, but it’s honest and on the mark… that side of the conversation needs to be aired.
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Outside of A Cat, this is exactly what happens in ZRL racing in all the top teams. They actively recruit such riders. TTT results are the clearest examples of rampant crusing, a term which makes little sense given current banding.
I wish I was strong enough to be able to manage my efforts. 
In a non-TT race you put out as much power as necessary to stay in touch with whoever you’re racing (contrary to popular belief, racing isn’t always an simple FTP test nor should it be), but that’s worlds away from knowingly managing your metrics IMO. I try my hardest and most of the time it’s enough to be sort of competitive.
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Well, now at least I totally understand why they want it tested. When they said there were going to be no differences in the categories, one of the statements made me think they weren’t going to calculate the categories differently in this first iteration (but I must have read it incorrectly) - so the “is it fair” part of the test isn’t something that originally made sense to me. Now that I understand they are changing how they get to the categorization numbers in a significant way it totally makes sense they want to do a bunch of testing and tweaking.
Anyone who thinks they’ve been unfairly bumped up a category is going to feel slighted, and in particular anyone who had a huge jump (i.e. from C to A which seems odd). But I guess this also highlights the fact that any change to how categories are calculated is going to benefit some set of people and make some set of people feel like it’s unfair. It will be interested to see how the process of feedback collection and tweaking the algorithm works.
The reality is there are likely a bunch of people top of D that should be in C, top of C that probably should be in B, and B to A. so how do they make those tweaks without upsetting whoever is affected? I guess the thing they are looking for is major changes where someone who is bottom of a category gets bumped up and then can’t even stay with the pack etc.
Edit: I now see the other “sandbagging” thread has a convo on this. Lots of discussion today!
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What is the lowest Cat you could enter @Oliver_ZRace_Central - looks like you could enter B at least
Lowest is A… All other options are just blank where the plus normally is.
Sorry, I meant could you enter C and/or D? You’re Cat D now, right? Just curious how it may have impacted a super-lightweight racer.
I am a cat C according to Zwift Power but mainly race B. I could not enter B, C, or D.
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Let’s be clear, this is what some teams do.
Some top teams have clear and well communicated values that don’t allow this type of riding, and anyone found to be deliberately managing their power will be asked to upgrade or find a different team.
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This entire episode is extremely disappointing. We were asking for straight up Race Entry Category Enforcement with the current ZP cats. Simple. Easy. A single frickin’ change to the races. You know, if you want to see the effect of a change you make one of them things at a time and evaluate how sh*t goes down.
Instead we get some kind bastardised Autocat debacle that has riders entered in events seemingly way out of where they were before all this went down. I could not be more disappointed. Well, I guess I could be if WTRL was put in charge of this thing and maybe that’s what’s happening. Sure wouldn’t surprise me any more than this program.
I’m almost glad I’m still recovering and won’t be able to race any of these events (using the term loosely). Almost.
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@xflintx can we have clarification what is “ride data” if this is all rides and workouts on Zwift then it is a good step.
But if Zwift used my last 2months of base and endurance training and desided to put me in A then I am very concerned.
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Says on the other thread that it’s all rides of any type.
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