For those of you race organizers wondering when you’d get to test out cat enforcement on your own events, check out this thread.
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Don’t make me come back there!!! 
y’all are going to get this thread closed…
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As was stated before, this thread isn’t for pointing fingers, folks. If you’ve reason to believe someone’s performance in a Zwift race deserves reporting, then please report them using the form we’ve provided you.
If you’re feeling frustrated, attacked, or otherwise under scrutiny directly, you can flag comments here as well.
Please keep the discussion constructive and non critical of one another. The criticisms need to be solely focused around what we’re building to help make racing better.
Thanks.
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I did the figure 8 B race at 9am ET this morning. On zwiftpower I’m now actually a C, but that’s more due to me not bothering with races for a while since my ftp is 3.3W/kg and pretty much every B race I’ve done I get spat out the back early on (I think my best is 5-10 minutes in the lead group) and then have a solo race. As a quick summary I finished 24th in a small group, but had a great time.
Not sure what the reason (cat enforcement, different cats, no sandbaggers/cruisers, more riders - around 50, double draft) but I really enjoyed the race. I stayed with the lead group (seems most did) with the initial start which seemed to calm down quicker than normal (within 2 minutes, maybe within 1) and then stuck with them through the small hills. When we hit the first KOM the pack split. I anticipated it for once and was in the first few, but was passed by people doing 1-2W/kg more than I could hold so let them go. Over the course of the climb I passed some of them back that had presumably gone too hard. At the top it was pretty strung out, but still around a few others. With some hard efforts we managed to catch up to another small group and formed a group of about 10-15 riders with about 25 riders up the road and out of sight.
This group picked up a few more that had been dropped from the lead group and stayed together until the next KOM. I guess after the first KOM this smaller group was a lot closer together in terms of power and I stuck near the front and about half the group broke away and rode to the end together and had a sprint finish between us which I managed to finish 3rd.
As I said I had a great time, I don’t expect to win/podium, but I do expect to be able to race with other people, even if in this case it ends up being a race for 22nd spot.
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My experience yesterday was similar, great race for 118th! When the groups are smaller it may not be as fun but at the moment it seems pretty good.
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It makes a big difference being very sure that the people you were beaten by were just stronger than you in the key moments and/or got their tactics right, rather than getting to the end and scrolling up the finishers fully expecting to see stupid numbers (and being right, most of the time). There will always be people exploiting the system, but as has been said from the start… low-hanging fruit and all that.
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Sorry ZwiftHQ, you need to ignore my power data from that 1700 GMT test…
My Direto has been behaving oddly recently (due to really heavy resistance I can only use 34T ring with 32/28/25/23 sprockets at a push) and for a change , I used the Direto as Zwift power source instead of my 4iiii, which I dual recorded on my GPS computer and published to the race.
Lets just say they aren’t very close to one another! 
Is this that you don’t have the skill set because the vast majority of races take place on the flat, or because you’re not a good racer? Because I think this is key - “if you judged Mark Cavendish on his ability to climb mountain stages, he’d spend his whole life thinking he’s a failure”.
If Zwift wants to make racing truly inclusive for all, there either needs to be a way to make it so weight doesn’t negatively affect your ability to race (the simplest way being to make it so everyone’s avatar weighs the same and it’s all about power) or there needs to be a good spread of races on different types of terrain.
I know flat races may be more popular, but part of this is because people don’t know their strengths. I spent 10 months thinking I was an average racer, until I learned my strength should be climbing, so I targeted a race up Ventoux and got my first ZP win.
I think working with the Zwift comms team to help educate people on their strengths (as happened with the ZA) is important here, as is making sure the events calendar has the right spread of courses so there’s something for everyone.
Basically 1) I’m light and 2) my 1-5 minute power is toilet.
And I’m okay with that!
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A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A NEWBIE RACER - The B category 18:00 Test Race
I don’t race much so thought I would test myself and do a little research at the same time. It incorporates much of what I have read, learnt and enjoyed from this wonderful forum group, and ZwiftInsider, over the past month or more. Here is my story, hope you enjoy.
( I just cant write short posts so please skip to next post if this is not for you.)
Woke up in morning, went to bathroom and weighed myself. 1 lb heavier than weight on Zwift so quickly increased weight on Zwift - Don’t want to get caught cheating.
Went and had breakfast - Did I weigh myself again afterwards, of course not boxers don’t.
Mid morning Ramp Test as don’t want to be caught riding out of category.
Resulting MAP 321 and FTP of 241. Absolutely and unbelievably exactly the same as my FTP from best 20 minutes up AdZ on 3rd Jan 2022 ( New AdZ PB for anyone remotely interested).
So FTP 241 = 3.32w/kg B***** really hoped that extra 0.6kg would take me down to Cat C.
MAP 321 = 4.42 w/kg MAP Of course using MAP doesn’t help me either !!
One last honest chance, I had calculate CP a few days earlier would weight change there help me into C category - No.
CP 246.1 W’ 12.4 3.32 CP w/kg.
Was I tempted to see what weight I would need to key in to become cat C - Of Course not. Had I been it was 82.2kg !
Well looked like I was going to be in racing B category.
One last thought, I called my 25 yr old, olympic pursuit champion grandson to see if he would take me round to AdT before I took over on the downhill. He wasn’t available.
My positional target for the race - I had exported and analysed the sign up list to kill some afternoon pre race nervous worry time.
My 20 minute FTP of 3.5 w/kg would suggest I might be TOP (good to be positive) of the bottom quarter of the field. But oh dear my Race Ranking of 403.1 would suggest that I was the 113th best rider on the sign up list.
Another dilemma - Do I race smart for around 150th place but risk getting called out as a Sandbagger and a Cruiser or do I go all out for a top 100 place but risk crashing and burning before halfway.
( Note: My Race Ranking is completely incorrect as ZwiftPower has used almost all of my December Duathlon points and Duathlon points shouldn’t count. They certainly don’t now)
Anyway I will skip over all my boring race preparations, safe to say if you know how Eric, ZwiftInsider, prepares I didn’t do any of that - queue music - I did it My Way.
I had done my research and knew race would start fast but didn’t know how fast or for how long. I had eventually decided I was going to try my hardest to hold the front group for as long as possible. A sure death wish if ever there was one but, from what clearly more knowledgeable forum writers had written, it was certainly better to be dead than called out as a Sandbagger, Cruiser or Quitter.
I started ramping the Watts with about 15 seconds to go, hitting high hold-able watts with 5 seconds to go ( Why 5 Seconds - well if everyone else blames their 3 second trainer delay I want to be able to blame a 5 second delay ).
Two bits of good news:
- I was already in my Heart Rate Z5 before the race started. I wasn’t go to waste any time in Z4 today, this was a race after all.
- Death already felt imminent and much more preferable than suffering for 50 minutes.
GO GO GO
God it seemed fast. I was sure I had done about 2 minutes when I was first able to glance at the screen. Something must be wrong I had only been racing for 44 seconds but not to worry I was still around the back of the front pack and they were bound to slow down quite soon, weren’t they?
A couple more minutes went past, I was still alive and I wasn’t giving up. Suddenly I saw I had set a new PB, think it was on the sprint of something. What Super Power am I going to get - Oh *** ***** **** a +10 that’s really going to help me get to the AdT
5 minutes in and I think I’m still with the front group so might as well push on a little longer. By now I have realised I’m clearly not destined to die but am going to be made to suffer for another 45 minutes. On a positive note at least 10% of the race was already over.
Around minutes 5-7 things get very hazy. Sweat is poring into my eyes and I have let my towel drop to the floor - should have spent more time following Eric’s race preparation advice - and I cant see the screen properly.
I suddenly realise that around this time a split may have formed and I’m now in group two. A very defeatist attitude suddenly crossed my mind GOOD let that lot go and we can all slow down and enjoy the race. I could breath easy at last.
But not for long as it soon became apparent to me that group two, if that’s the group I was actually in, was still pushing and nobody was sitting up and having a rest. What were they doing? Didn’t they know that a group of 40, who had already been dropped, were never going to catch a strong group of 60. Had nobody in my group been reading anything about Pack Dynamics and the disadvantages of Double Draft. What were they doing?
Oh My G** - I suddenly realised they were trying to shed a few hangers on. They were trying to sort the weak from the strong. They were trying to get rid of ME !! Didn’t they realise I needed a top 100 place, I needed this group. Ok they probably didn’t need me.
My new motivation - This group is not dropping me. Well at least not until the end of the second lap, or maybe half distance and, most certainly, only when I decide I want to drop back to the group behind.
Anyway Lap times, my legs and my heart tell me that there was a little slowing of our group across laps two, three and four. New motivation just when required. Could I possibly hang on with this group until the end.
My short lived recovery, still well in Z5, passed in a flash as lap 5 started. I didn’t need that very useful best sprint times information to tell me - my breathing, heart rate and tied up hard old legs were a sure fire giveaway. The seventh +10 power up in the past 9 spins really didn’t help my mood but at least I was around the AdT still in the group and it was all downhill and going to be easy from here. ( I believe that unfair allocation of power ups is an acceptable reason for poor performance. Had I, instead, received more Feathers and Draft Vans with of course the necessary Aero power up for the sprint I suspect you would have seen a different name in the top three results)
Not much more of my story to go. With 1.5 miles I was feeling great and knew I was going to make it to the end. A sudden kick of Adrenalin bouyed up by the thought that my ZwiftPower double digits 15 second sprint would surely leave the rest of this group trailing in my wake.
A worrying thought popped into my head as we approached the underpass with about a mile to go. Had I forgot something crucial. What was it I had read, yes that was it - races start fast and FINISH FAST.
Where had my group gone ? How was I going to put all that sprint training into practice if I wasn’t in the draft, ripping through the pack with a power up?
I didn’t give up. I wasn’t going to put out double digits but high single figures would be good and bound to get me past a dozen or so riders.
Here it comes I piled on the watts, cadence went up at least one or two RPMs and I looked at the screen - I was almost getting 5.0w/kg out of my sprint.
I didn’t believe it, I had read about it but thought it was an urban myth, MY TRAINER, recently refurbished and lovingly looked after, was suddenly seriously under-reporting the actual Watts I was putting out. ( Note to self: get on internet and buy the one everyone says over-reports your Watts )
Race over -
Where had I finished? Whatever it was ( about 115) on a positive note it is bound to be better on ZwiftPower (103)
Don’t forget get that photo which proves my race time (50:29.9) is always higher than my ride report actual time (50:22). I catch photo just in time and am relieved to see that all the D and C category have finished safely and are sensibly included in our race results No category discrimination here.
Better get ready with my Race Feedback form.
Did I enjoy the race? - Hurt so much while I was doing it but a fantastic satisfaction the moment it finished.
Will I do any more? - Probably
Will I write a story about it if I do race again - Certainly NOT.
What did I learn from the race
** - I had to produce my new PB times for 7:42 through to 8:27 mins to hang with the front group and then the second group.
** - Full On racing is going to be hard wherever I am in the race IF I am still racing.
** - If I want to be able to stay with the front group, in this type of B race, I probably need to increase my 5 Min power to around 4.05 w/kg and then somehow be able to recover from that effort.
** - I would prefer to race in the front group every time and make it to the pointy end of the race ready for an adrenaline fuelled sprint but I’m really not sure how soon or how much effort I can put into making that happen. ( Off to my main summer sport soon)
Whether you enjoyed reading this or not it certainly gave me much fun writing it with added benefit of a very good excuse for missing all today’s test races.
RIDE ON IN RACES - I’m sure one day they might be fun as well as very hard work.
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OK, I just did a Category Enforcement race and as far as I could tell it would only allow me to register for my ZwiftPower Cat or higher. I don’t think Zwift realizes that the problem is not not that the A riders are signing up for B races it’s that A riders are manipulating their data to stay a B…
Some B racers manipulate their weight in order to keep from upgrading to an A. I mean look at the watts they are generating but because it W AND w/kg they can play the game. On the flip side if a legit C rider does Zwift Crits and short races they will easily exceed the upgrade power and bam they are now a B. Your attempt at fair racing doesn’t address the problem. Try using what WTRL auto-cat does and look back at a riders most recent results and the type of race and then auto-assign categories.
It’s not using Zwiftpower categories, see the other thread on how it’s calculated. And indeed the OP here which explains some further changes being made.
This absolutely is the biggest problem in the lower categories.
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I think you need to read the other forum posts in relation to this topic and then make an informed decision.
People weightbagging to make themselves big and clever in a game isnt the main problem. People entering the wrong category is much more of an issue.
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LOL, they did try that last summer and it failed… bigly…
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Excellent post @Daniel_Mulcahy Frankly I don’t care about the minutie of categories, to me the testing races are proof of concept that racing can become a more inclusive part of Zwift. I’ve sat at the bottom of cat D and all being well look forward to suffering the same in C and B - the simple fact is I’m happy to do so if I know that category enforcement is there.
Someone else mentioned there will always be races that aren’t enjoyable or competitive, and while I agree, its clear that the proportion of those kind of races will decrease and affect less riders.
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These are supposed to be test events with some sort of feedback gathered .
I didnt even get a rate the experience pop up after completing.
How is the feedback being gathered ?
If its not clear how to give this and it is not obtained in a controlled manner ( i.e. in this thread or worse in some social media outlet) , will it be possible to properly use that feedback in a objective way ?
For what it is worth . Pen Enforcement worked 100% , ready for release . As for any other changes done … shrugs … no effect for me The race was indistinguishable from a non test race of the normal sub 1 hr flattish or rolling course . 95% everyone just held station, no point in trying to break or split group,. Race was decided in last `5 seconds by sprint . So if the objective is to better make the race neitralised for the final sprint by ensuring everyone has similar profile . Done.
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I would be all over that but the race schedule seems to follow the WTRL model of a seven hour span between west coast US starts so this morning was the only one I could make this week. I look forward to the next batch of these and hopefully @James_Zwift can put together start times that cover the day a little more linearly. Think three hours spacing. Please…
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And some mixed up events too . Hill top finishes not sprint finishes please.
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