Is the explanation not as simple as DQ’s should not have been configured on ZP for any of these CE events and a Zwift admin fixed up that mistake which put you back in the results?
UPG is just a result of event being misconfigured on zp. James is fixing them as he goes as there should be no way you can get an UPG in a cat enforced race.
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That would explain the removed UPG, yes. But it doesn’t explain why I could join the previous cat after an upgrade (I have been blocked from joining those races over the last week until tonight). So it was not just the UPG that was undone, it was the upgrade too somehow.
Edit: And now I’m upgraded and blocked from joining former cat, just like after Stage 1. Well… next week’s gonna be exciting. Anything can happen apparently! (Per cat definitions I really should be upgraded…)
The reason you are Upgraded to C in CE Races is because you did 37mins with 2.67W/kg…the limit for D is Critical Power of 2.625W/kg.
Yes, obviously. Much the same as the stage before resulted in an upgrade, due to an over limit performance in one or more measure. But it doesn’t explain why the previous upgrade was rolled back (or I wouldn’t have been upgraded a second time).
So I was curious about whether Zwift had tweaked something since last week that made me fall back to the previous cat yesterday as a consequence. They have been known to tweak the cat model, have stated they reserve the right to, and did so publicly not long ago when limits were changed to harmonize better with the old ZP model (the 95% principle).
Not to my knowledge
I have to update each “Get Rolling” event after it’s taken place. So if you got an UPG it would be removed.
It’s not a conspiracy against you, although I can readd it if you would prefer.
Sorry, I can never get past paragraph 2.
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OK @James_Zwift so it was a glitch then that upgraded me after Stage 1. Fair enough.
You read me wrong. That post has two points (you would probably add more to that - paranoid, obnoxious etc, feel free).
First, I took the opportunity to ask whether something had changed. Out of curiosity. You have stated that you may tweak the model continuously, so it wasn’t an absurd assumption.
And then I continued along the lines of the previous post, the one after ZRacing Stage 1, to describe a sample race to point out the flaws of the current cat model. (And I do this because I have the distinct feeling that in this place anecdotal evidence works much better than facts.)
The two points aren’t really related. Maybe that was unclear.
Yep, no tweaks. I always announce them when we do.
I think Stage 2 is vastly different to stage 1 in that the first half of the race is a lot “calmer” before all living hell breaks loose.
the only thing newtonian here is how fast you will be caught on the descent and subsequent rollers if you bother riding any part of titans grove above FTP except for the final bend. its a sprinter’s course
To clarify to all other readers:
The word Newtonian (which Sam cut out from its context) refers to Newtonian cats and only that, not to rollers or anything. Newtonian cats are cats defined by Newtonian measures (rather than past results). I think it’s a better name than performance-based cats, which I, and later others, have used in the past to describe the current cat philosophy and model.
Performance is too vague and could refer both to how strongly you perform physically (e.g. Watt) as well as in terms of results (‘A strong performance, he won!’).
Now, basing cats on physical (Newtonian) dimensions rather than what actually happens between riders in a race, like in real sports, is where the current cat system goes wrong and becomes stale, static and exploitable.
Sam knows this. My personal opinion is he should consider racing in cat A exclusively. No, that’s wrong. I don’t agree with myself there. He shouldn’t have to do anything actually, except to keep doing his best in races. It’s Zwift who should reward him with a promotion at this point for the excellent results. A track record like that isn’t healthy for Zwift as a racing platform. Not even Pogacar could pull that off.
Someone may have flattened out at a certain Newtonian level, we all do at some point. Yet no one should be able to live on a cat limit indefinitely. But with the current cat model it is bound to happen.
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Feelin the same, once CE invented and was used I just could go for Cat A (as a high B), over summer (and now) havin 3.65 W/kg in avg on ZP, I could do Cat B races and now after updating my weight for new ZRL season and done the first race I only able to race in Cat A with CE, still havin 3.65 W/kg in ZP, and to be honest that sucks.
I could survive a flat or short race like Super Sprint LaGuardia, but on longer races, especially with some climbing sections, there is no chance to stay competitive.
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It is probably the Bologna race you did 4.4w/kg for 17min.
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Maybe, but a 17 Min TT effort is not to compare to a race with 4+ W/kg…at least CE is not really fair and competitive at the moment, more fair would it to choose between A and B if you are a high B rider
As I said, for short and flat is A possible, but races like ZRL no way to ride in A
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17min TT is basically a FTP test. And the bases of categories is to base it of a riders FTP, that is how it was designed way back when racing started.
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I’m with you, but as I wrote we are a minority. For zwift’s secret algorithm you’re A rider (me too). This is sad and makes no more fun. Zwift Stuff informed me here in this thread that my CP is 4,22 although all others programs and calculators showing me max 3,9 but Ok Zwift has right and 100% there is no error 
And now as rider who can push sometimes, depends from day, weather and humour something more as normally should compete with guys which can push 6wkg AVG on Hills and 10wkg on vo2 hills 
100% there is all alright. 
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I’m in favor of a results-based category system, narrower categories (more categories), and more transparency about the calculations that put you in a category. But even with a fairer category system, not every racer will be competitive on every route. Under a results-based category system, a rider could end up in A due to performance in climbing races, or time trials, and still be uncompetitive in races designed to favor sprinters. Narrower categories would make racing more appealing to many riders because there would be more people excited about racing for the top spots. I don’t like to be blown out the back so I always try to select races on routes that I think will suit me best, so I look for longer races with some climbing (but not too much). I know I’ll only place well if my competitors fade by the finish.
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For sure I’m also for fair and true racing, but there are some strange things in there.
- Last Saturday I could sign in for Cat B for the 4 Tiny Race on Zwiftinsider’s Racing Series (DNF in first and second due some technical issues, and cancelled other 2 in consequence of those issues)
- Sunday, no ride
- Monday just 50 km with a pace partner
- Tuesday ZRL season start, before I updated my weight (lost 1.5kg since last weightin).
- Since Wednesday no more Cat B races possible
So it’s your turn to explain that, I don’t understand it anymore and all that calculating for CE is very mysterious to me.
But I won’t complain, so I need to race some A races…woohoo…not.
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i agree with the sentiment (other than that i should race a cat up under the current system, because i am not the dalai lama. i have specific training ambitions and none of them involve being pulled along at 4+wkg for 3 hours by a prem league team even if i could theoretically do it) but i will be absolutely shocked if zwift manage to implement a results based system that isn’t an exploit-riddled disaster. but they say they’re working on it and if it will get more people racing then good
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@S_A_ccc Do you think the Top Dogs will still be Same Top dogs if we go to Rank Cat? talking about holes will CWA find them you think?
people who win a lot of zwift races will probably keep winning a lot of zwift races no matter what anyone does. i like to sprint against people but i never understood winning. seeing a gold trophy is like shitting after eating food. enjoying the food is the important part
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