90 days will help. But there will always be some that fall out of the 90 day range. And we should just let them have their one race of glory. It is probably a good thing to have a out of cat rider to push the pace so that the sandbaggers have to go over the limit…LOL
Then we need to clearly define far over the line, and it should be clear to all riders before entering.
If you race once a week or it’s your first race, how is that right?
That person has every expectation to have a fair race - why does someone sandbagging get their one race of glory over an obviously weaker field at times??
Like many things, sandbaggers must be protected over those ‘doing the right thing’
How do we know that person is a sandbagger? He did not ride for 60 days so there must be a reason.
Yes he can be riding outside or on another platform but we don’t know or he was sick.
DQ after the fact is not making the race better the race is done and it happened. We used to DQ so that the person will learn and enter the correct Category, but now that happen without a DQ, the system will upgrade them after the race and for 60 days (I prefer 90) he will be racing the higher category.
I don’t say protect sandbaggers, and I never will.
In your rush to defend the guy ruining the race there was no consideration for the person who’s 1 race a week has just been blown up or the person who first experience is getting blown out of water by an out of cat rider.
It’s the typical double standard, talk about wanting to protect the new riders, but actually not doing the difficult thing to protect them… And then you constantly jump to the defend it…
This is me. I race once a week if that often, and I do a lot of preparation if I plan to race. So I am the last person that want my race ruined.
Will my race be better if the person get a DQ after the race is done? No he already did the damage and made me burn more matches than I needed.
The focus should be on improving the Category screening. But there is no way to know a person strength until they show it during a workout race or ride.
Your race won’t be, but your overall impression and satisfaction with the race & service will be, if you see the right thing happening it reinforces good choices.
As opposed to, don’t get DQ and set the bar low on ride 1 for standards to follow? You just end up circling the drain then.
Also just to point out, that ZwiftPower refreshes all user profiles of those who start an event.
That doesn’t seem to work. In the race we’re talking about the winner still doesn’t have a refreshed profile, and this is not his first event since the CE changes. Lots of riders complete events and don’t get a profile refresh. Manually triggering a profile refresh also does not work reliably - sometimes it requires multiple refreshes.
Can you give me a link to the event and which category?
C category
Check the unfiltered view since the first finisher got DQ afterwards.
So one position on ZP should make me feel better about the race.
I would rather see a UPG next to the guy that beat me, giving him the credit because let’s face it he is better than me, but also knowing that he will be one category up next time.
It is not the old days where 30% of the guys in the top is sandbagging and over the top.
I am also like the 90 days, but what you think of having more categories? In my case I just been move from D to C because I race twice over 2.5 (2.6 and 2.7). Unfortunately for me I can never compete with people that push 3.0/3.2. I know that is impossible to make everybody happy, but when you race you need to know that you can compete for a good position.
@DavidP @James_Zwift I don’t know if you have have access to this data or are willing to share it, but what is the bell curve between categories? It does feel like the A category is now pretty small.
For everyone else, race organisers can custom set the boundaries, so I would encourage them all to do exactly that.
I don’t have access to that data.
Let’s imagine we do have access to this data, and we find that adjusting the boundaries will lead to a more “fair” distribution of riders between the categories, that won’t necessarily lead to more “fair” racing.
For instance, I race in the A category, and I feel that it’s too broad. There should be an A and A+. Maybe the same for B? But also, in some races that would lead to only 5 or 6 in each category…
First we need a more flexible system for having more or less categories in the events.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s why I say bell curve, because the distribution is far from linear. You are always balancing volume of riders with range of ability. The correct solution as you say (and I have said for years) is the removal of static boundaries completely. That said, if the current set up is staying around for a while, maybe it should be addressed. The impact of A being too broad only affects a few riders, the impact of B being too broad affects a lot. I say this with a 4.3w/kg FTP and I think it’s a bit crazy that I would be in B with 3.2.
Is this the reason why A cat is becoming more sanitised to the detriment of other Categories?
4.45wkg is the new norm in B it seems.
For example, thanks to the Map numbers, I was 3.1wkg for 20 mins with a Map of 4.21 and being forced to race against those with 4.45 20 min & 5. whatever MAP in B.
The priority for fairness in racing should really go from D > A, not A > D as it seems the changes that have been made support.
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What are you talking about? Category enforcement is in place for more than a year and there was only one change to the category limits many months ago.
You have also made changes to the CP calculation that time? So not only increasing the value to be promoted, changing how that value is gained…
There are numerous people on this thread advising the limits for B have increased, 4.45wkg is the norm now for B riders as per the examples above. And it’s not 4.45 for 1 or 2 races before either having to back off or get promoted, every race they can hit that limit.
There is also a recent Facebook post with numerous comments also reiterating this point…
I know you like to think that everything the users post is gossip or untruths, but some of the user’s observations might just be accurate…
Edit:
Post from facebook Zwift racers
Bizarre numbers and fitness better now than for a while - yet have dropped to B - 20min 4.39 30min 4.40 - plus reasonable 5,1 etc . Not sure the Cat thing works too well - needs a tweak . Will continue to race in A. Otherwise it’s sandbaggin - not sure would do better in B as new cats creating two A cats and two B cats difference in A and B for example is small with A+ being way stronger .
Very confused TBH