Cap zPower users power output + improve flagging

It’s great that Zwift has a low entry point, and can get people riding and trying it out without having a power meter. However, it seems a lot of folks either abuse this or don’t know what proper setup is.

Zwift should cap these riders at a nominal power output, something like 3.0 w/kg. I cannot count how many zPower riders I’ve seen lately plowing at 600w+ for long periods of time.

Which leads to my second point, flagging these users doesn’t seem to do anything. This should be improved, or implement like a 3-strike rule, where 3 flags from other riders would automatically cap that user’s power.

This is a delicate situation. I get where you are coming from, and there are people that have never trained with power so they have no idea they are over or under their real life power. I was a zPower user for the first year on Zwift before upgrading to a smart trainer, and my power was actually under reported. So it can swing both ways, not always are they way over the actual wattage.

If I had been capped simply because I was using a classic trainer my experience would have been degraded and would not have been acceptable for a service that I’m paying for.

My 2 cents

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Zwift is already capping some trainers at 400W. So that help a bit especially the ones that are “unsupported”

But I think there need to be a bit more guidance when a user select a classic trainer, to guide people on what resistance level they should be and that they should keep it on that resistance level.

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Mike, I get that. But I think your experience is not the norm. Capping at 3.0 or 3.5 wouldn’t significantly diminish a user experience I don’t think. But seeing guys flying around at 6-8 w/kg? No way. At the very least, zPower riders should be capped in races and group events like the Tours.

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There is always somebody stronger and faster, I have my butt kicked regularly and I suggest people should worry about themselves instead of what others are doing.

My power reported in the game is lower than IRL. but I am strong enough for 5.5 FTP and 7 for a few minutes. Calibration is compared to Powertap hub with same trainer tyre - I am faster in game with the power meter, but that is set up for road use now. It is also Ant+ and I have BT only ATV.
I don’t get near the fastest times on zwiftpower, but this month changes to the game and my power are enough to get me flagged on every segment.

April release mentions zpower and “peer reviewed data”. Well if that is the case then it seems my peers are a bunch of bleeding hearts and morons who I’d never trust with anything important.

As for possible solutions. I took a segment and thought I saw a ST rider win the same segment jersey. I might have been wrong, but that works for me. Pay ZP, and pay the first ST. If ST is in front ZP gets nothing.

Flag the really stupid stuff.

Upgrading to a smart trainer is not an option either. Anyone who thinks I should is welcome to send me a new Neo2… I have different priorities.

And last night I cancelled my subscription because I cannot ride to my ability within a game that limits me and throws up snarky sarcastic messages and attempts to shame (defame) me publicly because my so called “peers” cannot cut it.

I get your dilemma, however, I think you’re in the far minority. IMHO, there are very few people with a 5.5 FTP. That is pro level power. So to have pro level power, and not have a power meter, or be running a HRM… I eye that with extreme suspicion. Sorry. Not calling you a liar at all, I just mean in general in the game.

You know how many times I have power-meter riders pass me, holding over 4.5wkg for anything over several minutes? Very, very few. In races, sure, they lead the pack. You know how many zPower riders pass me doing 5 wkg+ ALL THE TIME, literally every ride. It’s a problem. Last week a zPower rider passed me doing 25 wkg. He was going so fast I literally couldn’t flag him, because he was gone by the time I could get the rider list to refresh in the Companion app.

And yesterday during one of the Zwift Classics rider (30 miler), I was riding with 4 zPower riders in one small group, all putting out 4+ wkg. One them, put out 4.5-4.8 for a solid 20 miles and dropped the group, no rest, no fluctuation (I was following him). I couldn’t hang. And yes, there are riders IRL that can do that, but with zPower riders, you can tell it’s just not accurate. They rarely have heart rate data to back it up, and they rarely take rests or vary their power by more than 0.5wkg. That tells me they’re just probably tempo riding IRL.

You call us bleeding hearts, I say if you want to be faster than 98% of riders on there… prove it. Or just ride or do workouts on your own, or do another service that isn’t focused so heavily on group riding (which it seems like you have). A big part of the appeal of Zwift is the group dynamic and riding with others.

IRL, this would be like doing races where eBikes were mixed with regular bikes. Having tried to race an eBike rider up a gravel hill once… I can assure you it’s a discouraging, and losing, battle.

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Hi @M_C4

Having a Powermeter hub and classic trainer is not a bad setup, I have used my PT for a long time on Zwift. The PT is very acurate.

If you want to get your PT on your ATV you can use the CABLE bridge, that will give you accurate and results that people will trust.

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I am Cat 1 IRL

There are probably more people making that power than you realise. Under 20min on Epic KOM or 40min or so on AdZ is ballpark.

5.5 rider should put out 4.5+ continuously until aerobic decoupling erodes performance.

So, how exactly do you tell it is not accurate? 5 for 20mi is not proof.

Heart rate / health data is personal information that should never been given away.

It really is a moron to equate performance with the indoor equipment $$$ and say every C1 rider should have XYZ equipment. Most of us have to work for it. Other priorities.

95%? Well 90% of Zwift riders are slow and weak, and human nature attempts to drag everyone back to mediocrity.

The burden of proof is on the accuser. I am not racing, JRA using segments as intervals like I do IRL. I have nothing to prove. I ride for myself. I do not pay Zwift to be called a liar by you or anyone else. I do not deprive anyone of anything, which is a lot more than can be said of people like you and Zwift.

Gerry,

That was very selective. Please go back and read the sentence immediately before the text you quoted and try again.

I don’t understand what I need to try again.

I am not doubting your performance, I was just giving you a suggestion how to get your Power tap to talk to the ATV.

with the PT you will be seen as a Power user and you can do any race in Zwift power with out a DQ.

Okay, I’ll spell it out what has already been written for you. Powertap is in a wheel set up for road use.

I had a bad run of delaminating tubeless tyres on the trainer.

Hey man, you clearly have a different viewpoint than I do. Cheers for you. You obviously have an opposite bone to pick than I do, likely because you’re a fast rider and because you can’t present actual data, in a data driven app, you’re getting flagged.

I’m not saying that you need to equate performance with $$$. Good for you on having other priorities, this has nothing to do with that. You have a power meter! Use it. Otherwise, don’t be racing or doing competitive group rides without power.

There are very few 5.5 riders. Perhaps you don’t realize what rarified air that is. Especially depending on your locale and the riders you normally ride/race with IRL.

Heart rate is personal information that should never be given away… huh? Clearly Zwift and eSports are not your cup of tea. Maybe a pro would care about this information and the edge it could give to your competitors if they knew your power/HR/threshold info. Outside of that scenario, this makes no sense. I don’t care who knows my FTP or what my HR is when I pass them. What the heck is anyone going to do with that information?

Like I said, the issue is that few riders are this strong in Zwift that actually DO have power meters. There are FAR more “strong” riders at 5+ using zPower. Seems questionable to me, and I’m not alone. A new rider to Zwift, on a low Level, no heart rate, no power meter, pushing 4+ for 30+ minutes, and many of them… the odds of that… hmmm.

I have no interest in dragging you back to mediocrity, cheers on you man! But you are (and every other zPower rider) are putting out numbers that have absolutely no measurement data behind them, but Zwift treats them as if they do.

zPower is inherently flawed and inaccurate, there’s no disputing it. It’s not actually measuring anything. So I just wish Zwift would treat it as such… a vague idea of power that may (or maybe not even remotely) be in the ballpark, and use it as an intro to eSports and having fun… but not competitively.

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Again, all I’m saying is that zPower should be capped at a more reasonable level for competition and group events. If you don’t care about anyone but yourself, are just there for fun, and don’t care how you place… you shouldn’t care about this. If you do, you’re being hypocritical of your own arguments.

I do agree it is a pain to switch wheels and tires between road and Zwift. I rode mostly on weekends outside so I would switch tires on Friday so I can ride on the road and the rest of the week I used a trainer tire on the Pt for Zwift.

Some Z-power trainers are not bad, but there are so many that user set on the wrong resistance setting or are just not accurate at all. And gave Z-power a bad name.

Can’t you read? I told you I am not doing anything competitive.

Again, because of this I have nothing to prove. If you want to take exception to someone who is riding his own ride you need to get a life.

And, I use the tools supplied by Zwift.

It shouldn’t matter because I am not racing. The problem is being flagged EVERY time I have a go.

It is not like ANT+ and BLE hasn’t been hacked.

Keep is civil guys, you can disagree without personally attacking each other.

:ride_on:

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Sorry, I can clearly read, but I obviously missed that you said you weren’t riding competitively. My fault. Not sure why this is such an abrasive conversation for you. As I’ve said multiple times, my issue is with competitive riders, so chill out.

And just for fun, I looked at Zwift Power for the last race I did (the Zwift Classic 30 miler)… the winner averaged 5.1wkg, and the #2 rider was way down at 4.3wkg (and 90w less). The average for the top 20 finishers looks like right around 3.9-4.0. Again, just a boost for you. If you’re riding at 5.5… that’s awesome! Good for you! You’re just in rarified air, which is why you’re getting flagged a bunch, right or wrong. You’re an outlier.

I used the PT wheel and trainer tyre to check Zwift curves against my trainers.

After a rebuild (bearings, oil and roller) I mapped speed v power and adjusted fluid viscosity and level for a best match to the Zwift power curve. My current trainer is a little heavier than the Zwift curve and I am happy with that.

I think a likely culprit with zpower is people riding say a cheap mag or wind trainer with a fluid trainer profile to game the system. They can more than double their power this way.
However, I see a lot of zpower trainers being used that look entirely legit. I would say the majority.

I am not an outlier. There are a lot of people who drag me backwards. I solo climbed AdZ within an hour of Haute something stage when that was going and despite a fast climb I was scratching to make 30th or so. Fast climbers on Epic KOM are two minutes ahead of me.

Got it. 5.5 wkg FTP is just average then. Alright… you’re slow AF then. What the heck do you want from me?