Well, I don’t think sandbaggers and cheaters are an issue. Anyone that’s seriously competed in a sport will tell you that people enter lower categories all the time. I know a guy (at another sport and in real life) that loses “B” on purpose because he’s scared of moving to “A” and getting his ass handed to him.
Besides, what’s the purpose of racing if it isn’t to win? If you want to train or ride to have fun and sweat, then join a group event.
The difference in Zwift is you don’t have to loose to not move to the next Cat, he only need to stay under the Cat w/kg limit. you can look on Zwift Power there are people that has Cat A performance in races that does not have w/kg rules enforced (like Tour de Zwift) But in real races they sandbag and win B cat.
If zwift had a ranking system then he would need to loose the race not to go up the the next Cat. And that is ok at least that will give the real racer the opportunity to win.
Totally agree, I race the group I’m in, not the whole field - because I know that I’ll never be in that position (age) and I still enjoy it and have great satisfaction 
Agree, race the group you’re with. In my ZP results I have a race from back in March where I occasionally change from winning it (C cat 
) to coming 2nd, as the guy that was a minute or two up the road having hung on with the back of the B cats for as long as he could (I assume), keeps flitting from B to C and back again as his newer results roll up.
Is it what it is (for now). Me and the 4-5 that formed a break in the race had a decent battle, chased down a couple of others and so on. Some of them aren’t on ZP which makes the results look a bit “light” anyway. 
Sun Wukong in the house!
I tend to race against the group I’m in. This normally takes the form of me trying to hang on and then hope for a good print at the end. 
More often than not, I end up riding solo. But it doesn’t stop me from racing; even if the group ahead is +1 minute and the group behind is -1 minute, I can still watch those time gaps and try to at least maintain them, if not improve them.
If Zwift doesn’t do something to address these issues then the B, C, D category customers will vote with their feet.
Every “C” race I entered this year has had at least three or four riders who should have been in “A”. On more than one occasion I burned myself out trying to keep up.
It’s really difficult to keep track of your position in your entered category. Yes, Zwiftpower live ranking can help with this, but it should be in-game.
@Gru: why don’t you call those cheaters out?
If I see a cheat I’ll post here by name and call them out, or I’ll email zwift and point him out. I’ll even call him a cheater in the race chat.
I do agree. I I would guess it will be the most passionate riders/racers.
Well… Several reasons.
Regardless of the sandbaggers and cheaters, how can a racer be negatively affected if Zwift added a button that will hide all racers except those in my category?
That could be tricky to implement. What if some “C” racers chose to hide “A” and “B” riders, but others did not? The riders who could see the other categories could draft off them and get an advantage.
I wish there were more races organized with separate start pens for each category, and/or other categories hidden. But this is up to the race organizer.
Zwift could definitely improve visibility of riders “in category”… Give each cat a different colored bib/number. Change the “Riders Nearby” panel to a “Race Standings” and show only racers in your category (and no lapped riders).
Yes, But Organizers stopped using that because it just made the sandbagging worst. Now they leave it up to ZP to put people in the correct cat. But that take all the fun out of racing. What is the point to just do a 1hour FTP test every race. Racing is more than just riding at your max.
Auto-assigning race categories is needed to stop sandbagging. But separate start pens/staggered starts/view only category would make it much easier to see where you stand against other racers in your category. And it might make it easier to spot the racers riding “out of category”, who can then be ignored…
I still don’t understand.
Lets say there are 12 riders in a race, 3 in each category A, B, C, D.
In my PC (ie. client-side) I decide to hide A, B, C. How does that affect the other 11 riders?
If you choose to hide other riders there should not be any effect on the other riders in the race. You asked how a racer could be negatively affected by hiding riders from other categories. The negative effect would be that if you hide other categories you would be unable to draft off them (except possibly by luck).
I don’t think we want the option for the user to hide riders, it must be done from the race director side, so it will be the same for all racers. This can currently be done but it is not used because of sandbaggers.
Yes we need both!! Auto assign and separate pens. There can always be a “special pen” for people that want to sandbag or do training races.
I did the Mt Eden Cycles last night as a C rider. Averaged 2.9W/kg. The C-rider that won beat the rest of us by minutes. He was hitting 18W/kg at times !!! About the same as a car !!
I think he blitzed past the entire B group peloton that had left 1 minute before C-group.
Must have been on z-power.
I’ve learned to let it go and focus on being better than I was yesterday rather than who someone else is today. (but it is annoying when you’re racing C-category against X-Men !!)
I was in that race and gave up!!! I too normally care very little about the odd person but it felt like over 90% of C and D graders were riding at an A and B grade level. And I remember seeing that guy frequently above 16w/kg - thought I was seeing things!!
Also had a D grader flew past me and in 15mins of watching him, never once went under 4w/kg. His Strava results suggested that he frequently entered A races (as well as the odd B and C).
When I checked Zwiftpower after I bailed, I saw what appeared to be a “live current summary” and fairly much all C graders were averaging 3.5w/kg and above (probably only you, me and one or two others were the exception).
I just wont bother with that race again. I dont see Mt Eden Cycles being very actively supporting that race so I wont bother with it again. And I had a rant in another Feature Request here that is trying to get support for auto-grading.
Maybe Flag the riders you see doing it next time?
That was the most annoyed I have got on Zwift!
Thanks for the post.
To be honest, I haven’t used zwift since that race. I have zero motivation and Zwift is doing nothing to change that. Zwift doesn’t care, and to be honest, you shouldn’t even waste your time on rants. I’ve posted many times and nothing has changed.
With that said, I’ll be cancelling zwift this week. It’s 14.99/month, and I’m tired of throwing money down the drain.
Hi Man,
it would be disappointing to see you go.
I still think you might be looking at Zwift from the wrong angle.
I don’'t see Zwift as a race platform, I think of it as a training
platform.
You can use Zwift to improve your fitness (if that is your goal)
using any of the tools it provides. To use the race approach
could be a fantastic route as I find I always push myself much
harder indoors in a Zwift race than I would outside.
I like you wanted a level, fair, honest race but at present it is
not possible, so I have changed my perspective and just race as
hard as I can or want. I don’t care about winning as in reality there
is nothing really to win here except increased fitness and good fun.
There is really no point in making your finishing result or position spoil
your ride or training.
I’m probably older than you, so maybe that helps me lose happy. LOL.
Either way, I appreciate your frustration. I hope you will reconsider, but
if not, all the best with your cycling.
Ride On