Back to B cat despite 100+ increase in Race score

Racing
1

I have been an A cat for not far off a year.

When ZRS was introduced, my score was a lowly 611.

In the last couple of weeks my score has increased to 715.

In 690-1000 races my results in the last month have been: 20, 10, 3, 4, 3, 4, 5, 1, 23, 21, 10.

In the one win, I did 4.5 w/kg (350w). That was just 2 weeks ago.

But I have now been ‘relegated’ to B category. You’d think this was odd but…

…This appears to be because I haven’t gone over 5w/kg for 5 minutes for 3 months.

The main reason for this is that i haven’t done any short TT races, and in other races I haven’t needed to exceed 5w/kg for any 5 minute period to stay in the bunch (or miss the winning move) And in training my focus has been on improving power for shorter durations.

I want to get my A status back. Do I need to do a 5 minute >5w/kg effort in a race? Or can I just do this in regular zwift? It’s really not difficult to do this.

It’s a bit strange that Zwift now uses 5 min power to determine category. Unless you ride a race of at least 5 min (but not much longer) or you go for a 5 min solo / winning move in a race, or specifically train 5 min power, it’s possible to go several months without hitting your 5 min PB.

You can then have an odd sitation where your power curve only has a small difference between 20m and 5m power (right now mine is just 0.4) which is obviously not an accurate reflection of my numbers.

Right now Zwift says my 3m power is 423, 5m power is only 380, but 10m power is 361. Obviously the 5m power is an outlier, yet this seems to determine my category. Weird.

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2

I don’t have the answer but I find it odd you haven’t needed to exceed 5w/kg for 5 minutes in a race whereas according to Zwiftpower I have in 23 of my last 25 races!

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3

It has usually been 4.7+ but not 5.

I only ride flat races and it just doesn’t seem to be necessary.

4

ZRS & CE categories have no link, they are completely separate metrics.

ZRS is based on a compound score of 5min plus then results driven change (questionable how much this works and accuracy)

CE metrics is either 4-6min power exceeding zMAP or the magical number of zFTP exceeding the category boundaries..

I can’t remember what the A cat boundaries are off the top of my head.. Think it’s 5.2wkg zmap & 4.2zftp

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5

CE looks at all activities, not just races

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6

ok, thanks.

I’ll do a 5 min test this week.

7

I’d try to hold 5.1W/kg for a bit more than 5 min to be certain of getting zMAP high enough. Also keep in mind that any weight variation at the time of your 3, 5, 12, 20 min PRs will affect the denominator of the calculation since the weight used by CE will be the average of the weights you were when those PRs were set.

8

Well, it is the Zwift Racing Score ZRS and not the Zwift Training Score ZTS.
It is supposed to reflect efforts from actual racing scenario.

That said, there may be utility to having a ZTS but it would not be useful for comparison between 2 riders because one may be working harder than the other.
In racing, it doesn’t matter how hard you work, first across the line wins.
It is assumed, that everyone wants to win.

9

Thanks.

Unfortunately my weight hasn’t changed for a while.

Even with a higher workload and calories burned it won’t go below 77, and will creep up if I have a few beers. Age is brutal.

10

Cannot have food with beer. The body will burn the alcohol as instant energy and store food as fat. The body converts alcohol to glycogen very efficiently while food takes some work…and the body is “smart” and will take the easy way out.

11

what doing the Beer up alpe that would work right ? @chris_benten1

12

But alcohol also dehydrates you. You cannot absorb water fast enough to replace. but after a 100g of straight alcohol…the Alpe would not interest you very much…

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13

Actually wondering now if my relegation to B might be due to my zFTP randomly dropping 15 watts below my actual FTP, and taking it under 4.2

This always seems to happen after doing a longer Zwift race. As if the system thinks your 40 min best average in 1h40 race is somehow your maximum abiity?!

zFTP is a little weird.

Honestly, this aspect of Zwift is difficult at times, as a rider your training and racing schedules mean your numbers are varying, and they are tinkering with metrics and measurements, so you get these surprises.

In particular, the ‘FTP must go down if 5 minute power goes up’ thing is so bizarre. Perhaps it makes sense in beginners or lower level riders, but for experienced cyclists it’s something I don’t think is realistic.

I mean, if a rider smashes a PB for a prologue short TT, it’s unlikely his ‘longer TT’ potential has decreased.

14

Back in A, if anyone cares.

It was indeed the fact that I hadn’t gone over 5.2w/kg for 3 months, so reset that with an all-time 5 min PB (416) today.

15

See - it got you to deliver an all time PB!

Honestly, zftp and the pace categories are downright odd.

Your zftp is will probably fall again due to your 5 min effort. Zwifts algorithm assumes that your best longer efforts have a larger anaerobic contribution…

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16

I think I have more in the tank, as I held a little back to ensure I didn’t blow up before 5 minutes and suffer for nothing :slight_smile:

zFTP is still on 317, 100 less than my 5 min power, and 33 less than my 20 min power. Heck, it’s 8 points lower than my best 40 minute power from the last 3 months, which just shows what an odd metric it is.

It seems to me that zFTP tends to decrease if you ride a race and for whatever reason don’t go ‘full gas’, especially if the race is longer.

If you miss the break and just sit in the bunch, with no one really motivated to chase, you’ll get lower than ‘maximum’ numbers and zFTP tumbles a little.

17

I especially love how a new 3 minute PB will lower both your zMAP and zFTP. Did you accidentally bump yourself up into a category you don’t want to race in? No problem, just bust your butt for three minutes and you’ll move back down. :rofl:

ZRS has its own issues, but good riddance to old rubbish!

18

Do ther old cats matter anymore besides this ZRL final ? Arent all races in ZRS or vElo ?

19

There are still a few CE races out there, plus people like to see it on the ZwiftPower profile.

I noticed the Tuesday DRAFT race this morning was using CE, and the Rhino Crash on Sundays is as well. I think there are some others but not many.

20

If you are doing the ZHQ races you should be hitting the 5 min power hard with all the after party climbs.