While I am liking the new categorisation system, let’s admit that the complexity of the different parallel systems is getting truly insane… Imagine being a newcomer to zwift racing. You’re faced with so many competing, overlapping, opaque concepts…
ZRS categories labelled as A, B, …
Pacing group categories labelled as A, B, …
Zwiftpower categories labelled as A, B, … based on opaque concepts like MAP, zFTP
Zwiftpower rankings based on the USAC system
ZRS ranking scores
Zwiftracingapp
…
I literally don’t even begin anymore trying to explain this to someone that is just starting Zwift and is interested in racing. I hardly understand and I’ve been on here for 7 years, 1800 races and following to the extent possible the discussions on these forums (I’m not even going to mention the ridiculously complex system of getting signed up for ZRL…).
When is there finally going to be someone at ZHQ that has the guts to make some choices and implement ONE integrated (preferably IN-GAME) system? It would be so much more helpful to the development of zwift racing than endlessly (and inconsequentially) tweaking the pack dynamics…
I’m hugely against this solution. I want to know who I’m racing against. I’d rather have it be everyone and be racing for 45th place than it be completely unknown while I’m on the course.
It also makes the bottom category significantly worse, as the stronger riders in that category hang on longer and riders are just left further behind sooner.
bryan coquard is my favourite sprinter. i feel solidarity with him every time i see him get spat out of the back on a slight incline despite weighing the same as me
typical DNF rates from the 30 seconds i spent looking at zr.app are around 10%, me included… notable standouts include one guy with a 50% dnf rate but people DNFing more than around maybe 1 in 10 races at most seems very uncommon
i did not check every zr.app category, it might be higher or lower towards the lower end, but you just posted a million good reasons to DNF a race anyway so i dont think its worth deep diving into it
zr.app public data is just a rolling 90 day average, so at this point no… but i suspected people off the back were quitting out of races a lot more after zrs was rolled out so i asked tim hanson, developer of zr.app and zrs consultant if DNF rates had increased overall and the answer was yes, by about 13%… which is notable enough but not necessarily significant since i don’t think the average DNF count per race was all that high to begin with
when i asked, zrs had only been live for about a month. i don’t know if DNFs have increased or decreased since. i think it’s worth revisiting later. i also dont have any real insight into whether people are more likely to quit out of smaller field sizes or larger ones.
I’m personally most likely to quit out of a race for a non essential reason if the field size is smaller (typically because it overlaps with a more interesting event, or to go find something else more interesting to do on zwift if i didn’t plan that far ahead already)
i don’t need data to tell you that the longer a race is, the more DNFs there will be, though. that’s not really relevant to zrs, i think.
I am afraid those anti tank measurements they are planning on taking will only make it worse. And they must come up with a good solution that it doesnt affect the racers who do finish.
If a riders gets dropped quickly in a race, or get dropped with a long way to go it will be hard to make the percentage on what you get a score decrease or increase when riding on your own.
If DNF and not getting the score changed due to the Anti Tank is the same thing why even bother with finishing the race. You might as well DNF and jump into another event/race.
i agree. zr.app shows this icon when minimum effort is not achieved, preventing your vElo score from dropping. it means “minimum effort not reached”, so similar in principle to what ZRS is looking to implement
from my own profile. i have made my peace with god. and the bottom icon is how zr.app displays a DNF… neither are particularly punitive, but if i was as OCD about my zr.app profile as i am about not having DQs on my zp profile, i would much rather just DNF since it’s a lot easier to justify one if anyone does take exception to it, and there is no bright red “degenerate alert” icon associated with it either
that’s just my personal opinion
i maintain that what zwift racing needs more than anything is logistical improvements for event organising (since organisers make the races) and less unnecessary barriers to entry, particularly for semi private/race pass events like FRR and ZRL etc. as far as the amount of category systems go, more is better honestly… as long as there is something to indicate to riders what they are actually signing up for
For me this doesnt really matter. I could not care less about how much red signs, Exit sings or DNF are standing next to my name. It is probably twice a month that I look at zr.app. I look at Zp more, but even that would not bother me much.
Most important thing for me to Zwift is still to have fun. Sure I try my best in most of the races, but riding solo for 20km after being dropped quickly isnt my idea of fun. And when they make it that it doesnt matter anymore if I ride it at zone 2 or DNF, the choice is easy.
having once ridden 40km solo off the back in a 60km race while ill to avoid having a DNF associated with my name about a year ago, i’d do the same
snap. in my case i was tanking on purpose and documenting it so that can i make a good case study. but minimum effort measures are not really about making it impossible to do, just inconvenient. the problem i see is more what you originally said - if the outcome of losing the rear of the race is the same for the rider, then i would expect a significant rise in DNFs
it’s a joke achievement, you don’t get any points for it. but right now the fact i have 1 more achievement than p2 with the same score is probably why i am rank 1 overall for achievements, funnily enough
I havent started any one of those 35 races with the thought ‘I am going to tank’ but will be honest that I zone’d two some after I got dropped. And the cat I am currently in isnt the easiest for me. Anything flat I can compete, but other routes on rolling or even hills I have a very hard time following the lead group or even get dropped hard.
But this is what ZRS does if you dont only ride routes that suit you. You get up and down the scores a lot.
I hadn’t until recently. And that was just my trainer accidentally connecting while I was doing a fan-view stream and fiddling with the trainer after the race - went out of the pen by accident.
Isn’t there a big difference between a DNF after a naximum effort, after being dropped, and a DNF after a low effort that you did to tank your score (and you did the DNF just to save yourself some time)?
