Could you than please tell me where it says in the rules that in every race you have to reach your top power values.
Cheating is against the rules. Guess we all agree on that one. Entering a pen which Zwift tells us is ok to join is not cheating. The system might be broken, but it is not cheating.
This!
Itâs not on the âcheatersâ. They are just playing it smart. The problem is they play it in a way we think turns Zwift into a game rather than a sport. And if you race it as a sport and meet people gaming it instead, we feel cheated. Hence why the system needs to prevent things we donât like.
Personally, I definitely think Zwift should be sports like and that effort should be rewarded. Between two racers, equal in every respect (included tactical sense), where one puts in a hard effort and the other doesnât, then the one putting in the hard effort deserves to win. Thatâs the ethics of sports. Any system that promotes the racer who puts in a lower effort against equal opponents is unsportslike and thus undesireable.*
*) âExplainingâ differences in effort with so-called âsmart draftingâ is just BS and beside the point, itâs not what we are talking about here.
We should remember also that all this ZRS drama is a year long by now. Remember, a year ago, theyâve promised to roll it out Jan 2024. That never happened and in Feb 2024 the Team working on ZRS got sacked. Then they went radio silence for about 5 month and then in to beta testing in August 2024.
At this moment it really doesnât matter if Zwift doesnât know, doesnât want or can not make it work. The result is the sameâŚ
If anything, I can do my iTT races in free programs 
Then the racing crowd starts saying âallow e-bikesâ and âas long as not in racesâ and that tarnishes the entire reputation of Zwift.
It just makes it out as the platform of people cheating. So often when you see someone smashing 7-8w/kg, you look and see they have no heart rate, suspiciously stable cadence, or they are having a walk in the park with 120bpm, or the other example, riding effortlessly for hours at 160rpm cadence. Or you see the numerous sub-40min ADZ laps, very few of them are actually genuine. 
Itâs a nice change when a pro rider is coming along, you can see they are at least real with their performance.
I just said âbe honest with your numbersâ not âmake sure you record your absolute maximal effortsâ.
DRS rules:
I also said (which is missing form the quote) âIt depends on definitionâ of the word âcheatingâ. A cursory (or deeper, if you like) search shows that more often than not âcheatingâ is defined as breaking both explicit rules but also exploiting loopholes and going against the spirt of the game. At best, gaming the rules is a grey area.
The power based system was indeed broken but there is dividing line between coming back from a summer zwift break and smashing a few races before ending in the right category from carefully monitoring power curves, live in a race, to avoid levelling up. Those that do this, know very well what they are doing.
Are they cheaters? I said, depends on the definition one choses to use and the expectations of the group they are entering.
That could easily be soilved by Zwift if they check on a HRM before the start of a race just as they do with a PM. Suggested that lots of times, but they still refuse which I find weird. When a HRM is mandatory you should enforce that.
This is where it goes wrong a lot. Riders expect to be competative all the time, when they simply can not. When you just get promoted to a new group you should lose a lot otherwise it is wrong also if you can compete right away.
When I got promoted from D to C in the CE system I was shocked how fast they went in C and got dropped every race. After a while and with hard work I got better and after even more time of dedication and training I ended up at the top of C. Now with ZRS I am at the bottom again and am once again trying to improve to have better races.
I feel like the sandbagger card is drawn way too soon in a lot of cases. People can improve themselves also, but it looks like they want the easy ride to wins and demand the system to be changed instead of putting in an effort and get better themself.
When V2 seed score put me under 180, I took the opportunity to sign-up for a few Zmonthly pen E races, including 1710 GMT today.
Given my recent best 50-55mins is approx 170, less than 2W/Kg, I assure you all I will not be anywhere close to winning this race, just like last week!
https://www.zwiftracing.app/events/4616544
This is where short interval ability evaluation really falls down for racers like me with long covid, who are vaguely ok over sub 15mins but inconsistant in energy/ability, but really poor over 30mins+.
They have said it will be reviewed for January but changing it mid month is problematic when series rely on it for scoring.
Hopefully it comes with some variable boundaries month to month and iâd been keen to see the ability of 30 day max score as an option.
All the comments about individual situation with complaints how their personal score is incorrect as they have to face stronger riders is quite pointless. Some people will not be competitive in a given race unless we rubberband everything. However, itâs good to be critical on how ZRS works.
Whatever will be made is imperfect but with both of the above it will be a huge improvement and the numerous complaints of individuals should hopefully phase out as its pointless.
Cyclopathon uses this, If you donât have HRM connected you canât join the pen.
Itâs not foolproof, but itâs a start.
My definition of cheating is âbreaking the rules of the raceâ.
There clearly are people gaming ZRS to get in a lower pen, but things are being tightened up, gradually. Most races do not have a rule about sandbagging and with a pen enforcement system it should be very hard to do. Itâs a bit too easy at the moment, but getting better. So my opinion there is that it is NOT cheating, but it is not the expected sporting behaviour.
Further, regarding cheating. IMHO cheating requires âintentâ. You can be DQ from a race for reasons that were not your fault e.g. a dodgy trainer giving silly power figures. That is NOT cheating, but still a legitimate DQ.
Deliberately miscalibrating your trainer WOULD be cheating though. Intent.
Sandbagging would be the race after that when they used that -30 loss to enter a pen lower than the one they should be in. I agree that -30 shouldnât happen if you race up and I think itâll be dealt with as part of tweaking the score movement - which is the next thing now seed is much better.
This goes beyond ZRS. Why wasnât there a history or chart like Zwiftpower of win/loss for races on Zwift native site? There isnât a badge of honor or a title board. Those things ties value to an account. Something even like a ZRS high score to promote people chasing a higher score adds value.
I think it would be fun for weekly battles to see who can accumulate the most race points.
Zwift been around for 10 years? So many missed opportunities.
I had a similar thought a while back
Yeah I think these are excellent ideas. Getting swag or things like faster wheels if youâre in a higher category. Im all for that. You lose that swag if you get downgraded.
Before they can do this they have to come up with something against sudden weight losses and gaines. Otherwise people will just change their weight and get the rewards.
I am a cat 3 (old cat C) riders at 90 kilo, but I am pretty sure if I change my weight to 65kg I will be an A or even A+ within a week.
People actually have to put their achievements on Zwiftpower Notes.
2023 FRR 22th place cat C!
Even the monthly Zwift GC winner has 0 recognitions.
Series are also missing the build up, TdF is epic because people are chasing the build up. âX needs to make up 20âs in this race vs Y on this course for a chance at the yellow jersey!â
Literally no one is known on Zwift beside the king of sandbaggers.
I do not even know who that is.
Then those at A or A+ will welcome you. Riding in A or A+ isnât more fun than riding in E. Even if you reverse it and have an A+ ride in E, it isnât fun for them if they drop everyone in the first 300m and ITT solo the next 30km and beat the field by 10 mins.
Weight fiddling could be so easily fixed by limiting changes to 1Kg per day.
