Well I guess if it’s considered competitive losing races by significant margins against riders on the same or lower points in a category then we do have very significantly different definitions of what that means.
I’m confident that most riders are aligned to my definition and it’s reasonable to say that riders at the top of a cat on ZRS should be competitive in that cat until they upgrade otherwise what’s the point?
This is what i’m doing for years now with Split-cats etc. to get smaller cats from top to bottom so the transition will not hurt as much.
Example in my mind for this seed v2:
Pen A: 75kg above 4.5W/kg (10mins)
Pen B: 75kg above 4.0W/kg
Pen C: 75kg above 3.5W/kg
Pen D: 75kg above 3.0W/kg
Pen E: 75kg under 3.0W/kg
Where riders with other weights are seeded is up to the new formula that i suspect is using a version of Compound Score.
What on earth are you talking about?
There’s not going to be one specific time period w/kg that’s going to drive the new seed, it’s going to be multiple durations.
Different riders who have different shaped power curves will have different seeds even if they’re the same weight with the same w/kg at, say, 10min.
Racing Score is not an ELO system, your score does not reflect your absolute relative ability once your seed score has been run through some races, as will happen tomorrow afternoon Europe time, re-processing races since 25th September.
In zwiftracingapp, which is an ELO system, your vELO increases if you do better than the system predicts.
In Racing Score, it doesn’t matter who you do better or worse than in your pen, your points change according to where you finished in your pen’s field of those that crossed the finish line.
I fear that line suggests Watts will still be far more important than W/Kg for a 10min effort that dictates the seed score.
100% agree…i’m also afraid that it is to bias to Watts as original Compound Score is.
Intervals says my 90 days Compound Score is 828, my zrCS at zwiftracingapp is 736 at 94Kg.
My best 10mins is 239W, which is only 2.51W/Kg. A 0-260 pen E in Tiny Races has had me being dropped by ex- Category Enforcement Cs able to do up to approx 3.8W/Kg for 10mins.
yeah zrCS is using weight and scale factor…and it’s also to much bias towards Watts.
I have talked to Tim about this and he confirmed that Scale Factor that i suggested after doing some tests proved better in predicting results.
This is the issue of 30s being also used in the formula. Now the game will shift back but if Zwift’s version of Compound Score is worse than zrCS we will see more complaints.
All about keeping the noise down.
Probably could have saved yourselves 6 months of dev work and just gone with zmap - it’s going to be roughly the same starting point.
Better fix the scoring or we are getting CE version 2.
But atleast it will keep a certain sub set happy and the noise will be turned down.
If that is the case its going to be worse than before as the 60kg Cat Bs you are racing as a Cat D will now be able to match or beat your sprint 
Not that you will be anywhere near them at the finish…
“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results ” – Albert Einstein
That’s not how it works. By taking the 30s component out of the seed score, a D grader with a sprint will no longer be given the rating as a B grader without a sprint.
Probably don’t need the floor to be so far below the seed score now too, as people shouldn’t be as over or under seeded as before.
As 10 minutes is with the zFTP range, you’d expect the seed scores to largely line up with the old categories. Not quite the same as this should be a compound score rather than w/kg with a watt floor, so the heavy riders will a relatively high rating for the same w/kg while very light riders will get pushed up too with their higher w/kg for the same power.
As a starting point it’s better than CE, and better than seed score V1. Hopefully the results based part works well too now. I think it needs more variable boundaries though so people can have a mix of top and bottom of category experience and no one is trying to stay under any particular number.
I hope you are correct but as a Cat D at this moment there are Cat Bs with 50 points less than my seed score, It could still be possible that I drop 100 points and the Cat Bs gains 100 points and we are still in the same pen!?
I wouldn’t expect a B and a D pace group rider to be in the same pen initially, it might be possible in the right circumstances but not at all common.
And the B would have a higher score than the D so they could be split into different pens if the boundary was in the right place.
The problem we had before, as you mentioned, was that their score could be lower than yours. No pen boundaries could fix that.
What a gas turbine.
Maybe, but it’s more likely people will put in a 10min dig than a 20min dig in a Zwift race so it’s probably better than using 20min power. I’d prefer compound score because it uses an even shorter timeframe but as long as the categories have strict boundaries there will be people trying to sandbag them no matter what seeding they use.
why 30s is bad, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LytEdIYe5gw&t=328s 30’s power is not about winning, when going for dead last. jacking up your seed score base.
More races than will test 20min max power.
You won’t find many people disagreeing with the idea that 4-6 minutes feels more appropriate.
Presumably ZHQ tested this as one of their 10 different candidates, and apparently 10 minutes tested better. So here we are.
