So a D rider joining a race with 1 other rider that is A would lose points? Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
I believe there has to be a certain minimum number of riders in the race based on a few comments I read earlier.
I think the biggest issue with CE was that there were 4 versions of it. ZRL, original 4.0, updated 4.2, and zmap. When you add in Masters, Chasing Racing, FRR, ladder… there are a lot of systems to adjust to for a given event.
Top of B and C got very bloated by either (a) riders who could draft well, run just under cat limit then put in a huge sprint to win or (b) people who could put out high absolute watts for their category without going over the w/kg barrier. and (c) light small riders who go very fast with CDA benefits of being small and high w/kg but didn’t hit the 250w A cat minimum.
ZRS doesn’t solve all of these issues, but it gives a path to move people to the right category based on result, not just power. If we get it for all events (not just zwift runs), then we get a simpler sign-up system.
Any way of slicing entry into races will annoy a bunch of folks. The more straightforward and universal the system, the better the chance we have of people just getting on with it and racing.
3 Likes
The right outcome might well be them getting dropped initially and learning to adapt. Zwift races got very one note for a while, sit in, and then maybe sprint. Learning to adapt to the racing with more frequent efforts and more power variability during races is a good thing.
5 Likes
Wonder when we get ZP adaption of ZRS where you can see score change over time. How each race adds or takeaway scores.
Now that ZRS is rolling out we just need to be able to see more data.
- always show current ZRS and delta (change) in results.
- need to be able to see a history of races and ZRS results and delta in a simple table.
- both of the above added into zwiftpower results.
I don’t know about other people, but close to 2000 races in over eight years, and I have (unfortunately) had to go into the companion app more in the last two months than in the last eight years.
I rarely (well never) use either zwift.com or the companion app to look at results or to figure out what races are coming up.
100% of that is done in zwiftpower. If ZRS does not fully integrated get into zwiftpower it (for me) is a non-starter.
Other than that, I’m enjoying the ZRS races. However, that may change when I tip over the top of C back into the bottom of B.
2 Likes
I found those races incredibly boring, and sprinting isn’t a strong suit for me, so I shopped carefully for races with some moderate climbs, especially when I could race for more than an hour. There weren’t a lot of opportunities and the competition was generally worse due to the low numbers. But for sure ZRS is a big reset for people who just want everything to keep going as snooze and sprint and stay at the top of a category forever because 30s power meant nothing in the category system. Perhaps it means too much now but it meant too little before, and it kind of sucks that people can’t do sprint training outside of a race without being scored up as if they could do that at the end of a race which they probably can’t.
4 Likes
except one or the other, zwiftpower has to migrate elsewhere. In some races I’ve seen that only 60% of the folks racing show up there, because they haven’t, or don’t want to, enroll in zwiftpower.
Zwift should just make enrolment in zwiftpower a mandatory requirement for racing, or roll all of the functionality of zwiftpower into zwift.com.
A level of data transparency is vital for esports. If people don’t want to share that data that’s absolutely fine, but then just keep them out of races.
Even keeping the biometric data private would be fine if we could trust that zwift prevented it being manipulated. We’re still seeing people gaining and losing 15kg overnight, so we know the system still allows it to happen.
4 Likes
The only difference on viewing results in ZP vs Zwift, is the Naturalized Power, Max HR and the rider’s height. Weight can be calculated if you really want to know. For esports where maybe there’s something actually tangible to be gained by cheating, then go to Zwiftpower. For the rest, I’m ok with zwift’s own events’ results. I’d rather all racers be accounted for than to be able to check a riders height history.
You also can’t see 2min, 1min, 30s, and 5s power. You can’t see sprint and KOM segment times, you can’t see your power curve from the race. And that’s only for a race you’ve done.
You can’t easily see any results from a race you haven’t done, and you can’t see anything about the start list of a race you’ve signed up for.
And of course we want all riders accounted for, that’s why enrolment in the zwift owned and operated race results portal should be a mandatory requirement for racing.
3 Likes
@shooj it was promised that the full algorithm for both seed and adjustment from results etc would be released when ZRS graduated to production status. When can we expect that?
Zwift racing is not IRL racing. People are using it differently. I think many just jump on a race and expect it to be close and therefore engaging for the 30 min it lasts. Nothing fancy. Adrenaline keeps you engaged. There is always someone with about the same W/kg you can climb with, so that keeps people motivated.
It you have 30 min and gets dropped on the first bump, you have maybe the same as IRL, but it is not fun for more. It is iTT, DNF, and big time gaps.
1 Like
Are they increasing the PR look back? Planned maintenance to delay power metrics [October 9 / 10]
1 Like
I totally agree - this is low hanging fruit. Showing something like 529 (+10) at the results page instead of 529.
2 Likes
The start ZRS must be the score at the beginning of the race, including any changes since the last race (new PR(s), decay).
i want more people to race, not less… just because someone isn’t on zp, it doesn’t mean they aren’t honest people
2 Likes
nothing has changed as far as that goes. you still aren’t obligated to actually contest every single zwift race you enter like your life depends on it, or limited (willingness, time energy etc permitting) to how much racing you can do
1 Like
It shouldn’t need to be a separate permission, it’s zwift owned and operated now. Just include in the T&C’s “if you choose to race your race results and history will be available on the results portal”.
I don’t like that zwiftpower needs to exist, I don’t like that zwifthacks needs to exist etc. All this functionality should be included in zwift.com but all we’ve ever got is the bare minimum.
I also want more people racing, and I believe that being able to trust that your competitors are being held to some level of honesty will improve the racing product and make racing more attractive.
1 Like
the zwift results page has never been my first stop for anything (and i doubt it ever will be… too much unused space for my refined eyes), but i have absolute faith in there being something in place sooner or later
1 Like