workaround:
oval chainrings (higher watt) - most powermeters measure only once per turn
manipulated power measurement (or just some crappy power units which still are available on the market)
lower weight (simpyl change your weight)
rollers, rear hub PM
and many others
of course some riders are able to produce more than 6 wpk over 10 or 20 mins IRL but on zwift i always wonder how many are possible to do it.
if aerodynimc is mostly equal and elevation is low (below 7% grade): 1 rider around 80 kg riding 6 wpk in the flat for 10 or 20 min will destroy most if not all flat races especially the ligher riders will suffer most. in a crit or indoor (omnium) this will easily lead to a compact group … with 7 wpk you will trigger quite fast a breakaway if your weight is around 75-85 kg …
i dont know why the code hasn’t been changed for so long. it just shows that the creators are either not working constantly for the platform, the code is super messy, the effort is to high, or the creators are not playing or give a whatever about the platform … its just so annoying.
its just a matter of time till a bigger platform will realease a game which combines all that into a real experience and will create the benchmark in virtual racing … currently all games available are just a workaround and compromise of what could be possible …
the mostly effective and easy workaround is to create speed out of power zones or from FTP%.
if FTP% is true you will easy have more real races and harder ones too.
everyone could race against everyone without thinking about weight.
FTP% would solve a lot of issues in online game market. its all about suffering in the end. and monitoring FTP/Watt/Power is less likely doomed to manipulation than weight doping.
In order to have more challenging races enable FTP% races without taking weight into account. Done.
FTP 33% = 30 kmh
FTP 66% = 40 km/h
FTP 99% = 50 km/h
I think that will be too easy for sandbaggers.
Just controlling the FTP in “test” (o historic efforts?) or as simply as put the 260W FTP at the profile when really the rider is 320W FTP…
Even more tricky than height and weight nowadays.
If you register at Zwift with 155cm tall and 44kg, in the Tempus Fugit flat iTT race, you will destroy Philippo Ganna with real measures, and you can go at 130bpm @250W.
Aerodynamics(?) in Zwift are as ridiculous as that.
And that’s why people cut their legs and arms, and put 10-15…25kg less of their weight.
IRL climbers @320W not even can dream to be competitive against 75-80kg timetrialist who put 400W.
But here in Zwift they actually can even WIN!!!
I fully agree.
I think it’s a videogame for kids, so they can ride at the same speed as fathers, what can’t be possible IRL…
Clearly lighter and small riders have physics advantages in Zwift.
On the flat they are faster than IRL would be, and also in descents.
Climbing is the only thing Zwift’s physics match reality, just where lighter riders are faster too.
Yes and no. If all would have the same FTP lets say 500 W. The Cap should be at 500 W btw.
All riders would ride at the same speed. If all share the same FTP. Speed is based on W or FTP.
If all riders would race at the same speed only the strongest (mind power, will power) will survive/win.
You could even create something like that:
A = 500 W
B = 400 W
C = 300 W
D = 200 W
E = 100 W
Would be far more interesting without the weight or w per kg bogus.
Most rider will find themself around 300 to 400 W i guess.
Lets say the system i present would be valid and active inside Zwift:
If an automatically race placement would be valid you would have a lot more interesting races.
Your FTP is always based on your fitness and the system behind zwift already is tracking your FTP.
You as the rider will always see your best FTP. But lets say the system asks you to do a FTP test (In order to start a race) every weak or month with the option to use the best FTP tracked in that weak or month if you did races your FTP would be always up-to-date.
If your FTP matches your current fitness which would be the base to start any race you then have to find races or create races based on your FTP of course. In order to find races you could setup a reach based on your FTP (instead of A to E) you will see something like that, search for races with 5% reach or 10% reach of current FTP:
If FTP is 300 W you will see either races of
270 to 330 @ 10% reach
285 to 315 @ 5% reach
After you set your reach you will then see available races (worlds, tracks) which you can select together with a countdown when the races will start. Like in the good old days of first person shooters or strategy games and so on … like a table of all races available …
Reach | World | Track | Racers
5% | Watopia | Track X | Racers Y/Max
5% | Watopia | Track X | Racers Y/Max
10% | Watopia | Track X | Racers Y/Max
10% | Watopia | Track X | Racers Y/Max
That would be the real deal, the future of races. Because who cares about weight in an online game?
In that case gender doesnt play a role either!
Its just about Power in any case your muscle power and/or will power. Who cares about weight???
If some day zwift is able to calculate a real equation riders who have passed a lot of FTP like races will than qualify for W per kg races.
Think as a sandbagger, he would say his FTP is 200W, so “standard” speed is 35km/h if he puts 200W. But as he really is able to 300W FTP, then could be riding at 240W (his FALSE 120%FTP) at 40km/h with really low effort.
Then, if you are real and legal, you say your FTP is 300W and the “standard” speed also 35km/h.
Now you will literal diying pushing 330W average in a race, but as that is “only” 110% of the FTP, you will go at 37km/h.
Sandbagger will destroy you at 120 beats per minute, easy.
That’s what I was trying to say.
When you are “on test” (forced FTP test or since first race registered) you can go 220W instead the 300W you are really able to do.
So 220W will be set as you FTP, then will be easy to go 120% and fly…
Genuine sandbagging practices…
yes and no.
with XXX% your ftp your able to ride a fixed speed no matter your ftp.
your ftp will change after racing.
the higher the ftp the harder it gets to cheat.
after a few races your ftp will be higher and higher till it peaks…
so, no. sandbagging would be quite hard quite fast …
just think about everyone would be sandbagging or just hold their legs… if everyone would mimic anyone everyone would find themself in a rush. and if the power of one would raise all would raise in a race in order to keep the pace. higher and higher till only a few will survive …
some kind of growth depending on the aggressiveness of the riders either linear or exponential …
Sure sandbaggers would need a big control to never put their real watts when races are on heat.
I observed that with the actual “antisanbagging” ZHQ races where B cat. (plenty of sandbaggers) is racing together with A category. If the A’s push a little, then the “up” triangles start to reveal sandbaggers, just for the rush…
Could be a good solution and as it looks, not hard to be programmed.
just add a standard rider. heigt, weight and so on.
connect it to each zwifter.
delete weight, height settings from everyone when racing instead use the standard rider setting.
this as somekind of experiment race series would be interesting in order to see how it works in action.
i did some testing with friends it was fun and everyone liked it.
we just modified weight, height in order to have equal w/kg setting. then raced against each other.
There’s a weekly race every Thursday on RGT that requires riders to set their FTP at 3.2w/kg. Some riders need to add weight, others take some off. Creates some close racing.
I’m reading this forum post nearly after a year. I took a big break from Zwift for the last 4-5 months and only been back on now, with a few hours of experience on PD3 with the new update. But my memory is still fresh on how the dynamics was before last year, in the way you describe.
Would you say the physics has changed for the better with the latest updates, relative to what your past observations were? Thanks.
I think PD3 has been a significant improvement, yes. There are still quirks, but it seems like it’s possible to stay at the front without feeling like the power requirements are excessive.
PD3 has (in my experience) generally made for wider and shorter groups, but not to the point of causing problems.
